Sorry not about Koi but had to share

[kimr]

Hi Everyone

I have just had some brilliant new's. We are moving back to Kent details to be arranged but after 4 long years of trying we will be back in Kent

I will need advise on how to move the Koi though but this is the best news I have had for a very long time

[StuW]

So pleased for you

[Graham.]

Cool ! pond digging party at Kim's house

Bring a shovel everyone, Kim get those bacon butty's on the go

Graham

[Manky Sanke]

I will need advise on how to move the Koi though

Kim,

Moving koi is easy in principle. If the journey is short, you can transport them in a (double) bag with more air than water, put the bags in cardboard boxes and drive as quickly as is safe and legal. For a longer journey, it will be best to inflate the bag with oxygen.

That's the principle but obviously there are the details of how to put that into practise, such as how to net a fish, get it into a bag without damaging its scales or splitting fins, inflating the bag, sealing it, placing it in a car and what to do when you arrive. What would you would like described in detail? (All of it?).

Alternatively, you can move koi in a transport tank. This would be expensive for a one-off use but, if you choose this method, the tank should be filled almost to the brim before the lid is zipped up to prevent the water from "sloshing around" with the risk that the fish will be thrown around inside and possibly harmed. This means that you will need an air pump to continuously aerate the water during the journey because there will be very little air-space above the water.

Moving koi is safe if it's done right or dangerous if it isn't. As it's koi show time, you could go to a show, stay until debenching time and watch how it's done by the different exhibitors. The general principles are the same but there are slightly different techniques, the most skilled of which is how to get that elastic band to seal the bag without breaking or pinging off somewhere!!! In the meantime, what is it that you want to know?

[kimr]

Hi

Thank you for your nice comments, those of you who know me, know how long I have waited for this move, so to be on my way home is just the best thing.

Hi Syd

Thank you so much for your help, firstly the move is around 300 miles, so it's a long journey, and with the Koi on board it will an even longer journey. I havn't only got one pond to move but two I did bring a few Koi up here but in the 4 years we have been here they grown quite a bit, so I am now having to move 65 cm + Koi which is very daunting as I do not want to cause them any harm. What I need to know is how long can they be in transit for SAFELY, there are a couple of ways of doing it, one is bag and box them as late in the day as possible, then leave at around 3 in the morning, this way, the journey will much be shorter and cooler then I would have all day to settle them in and set up the pond. The other is bag them and leave, but this would then mean a journey of anything upto 12 hours, and yes it has taken that long quite a few times, which would then mean rushing to get them into the holding pool for the night and starting on their pond the next day. How many smaller koi can go into one bag or do they all have to bagged on their own, is there anything I can put into the water in the bags to help keep them calm, would 0.3% salt be a good idea. Any advice that you can give to help making the move as less stressful for the Koi as possible would be great. I wont be able to use a zippy so it will have to be bags and boxes.
Also how long before the move would you suggest to stop feeding.

Thank you for any advice you can give

[Graham.]

Kim one thing I would say is dont let this part of the move stress you out, I have been there with the house move last year and as long as you are prepared then all will go fine.

Don't forget these Koi have flown a long way from Japan and have been boxed for many hours, I have seen the look of these Koi after picking them up at the airport and back to dealers so understand how stressing it can be for them, however with the right planning your be fine.

I would try to keep them to double bag and one box per koi of anything over 35cm under that and you could go 2 to a bag of more depending size but again more Koi more chance of collateral so less is best in my opinion.

Dont feed the Koi for at least a week, this will help in transit that is for sure. Do you have anyone near you that can supply oxygen into the bags? noting wrong with using an air pump from the pond but you cant beat a good bag full of the good stuff.

Is there not any chance you could have someone localish in Kent set up a swimming pool vat a month or so in advance and start to move the Koi early? few koi over at a time, very much an easier task than worrying about them especially when a house move is on the cards.

Just my thoughts
Graham

[kimr]

Hi Graham

A Koi Quest member has already offered to be there to help when we get there, which I have taken up his offer, I am hoping to have an 8ft pool set up to float and then put the Koi into which will be set the hopefully the day before, but I havn't got a month as I take on the tenancy in 24 days on the 5th September and the previous tenent doesn't move out until the 31st August. To be honest the Koi are the most important thing to me, so their well being is my main priority, my saying is "have me----- have my Koi ". Because this house and the house we are moving to is not our own I not only have to take the Koi I have to take the ponds with me, so bagging the Koi and dismantling the ponds and making sure they all get to where we are moving to without any damage is so so important. I have got the oxygen it is just bags I need, I have a couple but no where near enough so I will going out to get them, and I have enough boxes, I think. The goldfish pond isn't such a problem as it is a lot smaller and fish are easier to transport, as they are hardier. If it was a short move I wouldn't be so worried, but I have no-one here who can help me. When I brought the Koi up I had time to get it all set up a month before I went to get them as someone was looking after them for me, but I havn't got that luxary this time. Logistically, it is a nightmare. As it all has to go at one time.

Thanks for your help and any advice you can give

[Manky Sanke]

Kim,

It seems that you have the bagging and moving process pretty much sussed except for how and when to go about it. The idea of bagging them in the evening then driving in the early hours seems to be a good idea. They would certainly need oxygen for that length of time but I wouldn't worry that the time in the bag might be too long.

I've never had any experience with journeys that long but from what I have picked up from those who have is that a sedative in the bag will help keep the koi calm and not only reduce oxygen consumption but also the build up of carbon dioxide in the water.

I'm not sure about using salt though. Salt is reputed to have a calming effect on koi but putting it in a bag will reduce the oxygen level in the water. Someone who has more experience in preparing koi for long journeys would be better to give advice on what to put in the bag to keep koi calm.

Stopping feeding will be a good idea but when I spoke to Bernice Brewster about starving koi before a koi show, she told me something that runs counter to the commonly held belief about starving koi. She said that it would be sensible, but didn't recommend withdrawing food for longer than three days before the event because it didn't take that long for koi to purge ammonia by-products from digesting protein in food. She said that what would happen if food was withdrawn for too long is that the koi would start digesting their own stored protein.

Since digesting protein, whether from food or their own bodies, results in the release of the ammonia in the amino acids which make up protein, starving them for two or three days before a show would be the best idea. I would say that would also apply to transporting koi too.

[kimr]

Hi Syd

Thank you so much for your advice, you seem to have more faith in me than I do, I have never moved the amount of Koi and size of Koi before. I do have another question, it is about the boys sturgeon, we have only had for 3 years, and he has grown from 4 inches to being bigger than the largest Koi, his exact size I do not know but how would I move him, any suggestions as to what would be best would be brilliant

Thank you again

[Manky Sanke]

Kim,

I've never had any direct experience with sturgeon but I what I do know is that sturgeon have a reputation for not tolerating reduced oxygen levels very well.

Unless anyone on here knows better, this is what I would suggest:

Since the oxygen demand of a stressed fish increases by two or three times the normal consumption at any particular temperature, you would be best to take care not to cause it any stress during netting.

Since fish release stress hormones into the water when they are stressed and since these hormones in the water also cause fish to become stressed an interesting method I once saw on a documentary about moving a shark on a very long journey was to net it and transfer it to a holding tank for a short time. The idea being that the initial release of hormones would be in this tank. It was then transfered to a second travelling tank for the journey which wouldn't be so contaminated because the initial release would have been left behind. I don't know whether it would be considered as over the top to do something similar with your sturgeon, but possibly you could net it first and put it in a bag floating on the pond whilst you netted the others and then transfer it to its final bag, filled with fresh pond water, right at the end.

Sturgeon can puncture bags if they thrash around so it might be an idea to triple bag it and even put that bag in a lined box to prevent loss of water if the bag is punctured.

Use the largest bags you can find, filled with the minimum amount of water to allow room for the maximum amount of oxygen.

That's about all I can think of except perhaps, steal the number plates from a car belonging to someone you don't like and put them on your car for the journey. Then you can drive as fast as you like, ignore flashing speed cameras and shorten the journey time considerably.

[tomy2ponds]

Great news Kim we have spoken about this many times really pleased you have finally got the move you have been waiting for.

[Manky Sanke]

Kim,

An article on netting and bagging fish is something I've intended to do for a while.

Your post was the final spur that kick started me into action. It isn't fully live on my website, it's on a page visitors can't see yet because it's there for discussion in case there have to be any revisions. Then it will need pictures and a final polish.

The first compromise was changing the three day fasting period that Bernice suggested to five days. Its complicated, but three days will get rid of stored food and there might just be some stored amino acids which would need another two days to be safe. Anything longer than five days risks them going into "starvation" mode. I'll be speaking to Paula Reynolds this week and Bernice at the weekend, then I'll step back and let them decide. So that period might change.

Anyway, since you asked for information, I'm posting the link so you can see it before you move rather than just after in case there is anything that might help you in the move.
http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/transporting_koi.html

Its not intended to be a stand-alone encyclopaedia of everything to do with transporting fish. Its purpose is to dovetail with another article that someone else will be doing. I've tried to be as comprehensive as possible. BUT if anyone on here who has lots of experience moving fish can see anything major that I've missed I would welcome any suggestions.

[kimr]

Hi Everyone

Well I am now in KENT AND all Koi are swimming around in their temporary home The last Koi was bagged at 2.45 am and they were all in the pond by 9.30 pm. It was hard work and very stressfull, more so for me than the Koi as they all looked fine when I looked in their boxes. I wasn't able to bring the Sturgeon as he was just to big I found a 40 gallon tank but there just wasn't enough room for him to move so he was rushed round my friend's pond and he is fine so I am told. So thank you to everyone for your advice, but could I just ask one more question, would anyone add anything to the pond as a precaution because of the stress they have been through? Thank you again

[Bob Hart]

Great to meet up with you tonight 'neighbour', we're living only 5 miles apart now. Best of luck with the new house, I'm sure you'll soon have it sorted out

[kimr]

Hi All

Just a quick update, all the Koi are fine, the pond is thick green (I think the uvc bulb must of got broken in the move) but a larger pump and filter have now been fitted and a larger UVC put in place so hopefully I should be able to see them again properly soon. But I have had no other problems with water no parasites, they are not to happy about being in a smaller pond, but it has worked out even better than I could of hoped for.

The goldfish have done really well as well, so well in fact that they were spawning this week, I think the increase in tempretures must of helped there

So once again thank you all for the advice