Chloramine T & new additions

[DaveB]

Hi folks here is a picture of my koi now all up frantically feeding.
The situation as of now is Koi are now returned to normal with no flashing. No sulking and no flukes found when scraped and scoped. I even did a gill biopsy and found zilch. Due to the above findings I believe the last dose of CT ( almost a week ago) has completed the job on the flukes. I therefore don,t think I can justify a dose of temlin but will monitor the situation.
As far as the sanke is concerned I will perhaps leave her for a little while and allow nature to take its coarse. Fingers crossed she will now make a full recovery.I will maintain temps at 14 deg C throughout the winter to avoid her sitting on the bottom again.
The water quality is slowly getting better with the TDS just under 300. I would imagine it will tkae ages to get all the salt out of the system. ORp levels are on the rise 330mv at a p.H of 7.4 K.H & G.H are 3dh & 6dh respectively. I am changing about 10% water per day.
There is about 5mm of blanketweed on the pond wall and apears to be dieing off at the same rate as it is growing.
All in all things are looking pretty good and I think I will try and chill out and enjoy the koi for whats left of the summer. I will still keep you guys updated of any developments and upload some more photos when I again inspect the sanke. The pec musle on the shiro has totally healed. So once again speciall thanks to Duncan & Gazza for there patience and guidance.
Any input is always apreciated. Best Regards Dave

[Gazza]

Hi Dave,

Great news mate and well done as you did all the work we just sat here and done a bit of typing

Yes i think if all fish are OK and no signs of anything going on i would just hold off on the treatments for the time being and just keep an eye on them.

[DaveB]

Gazza 10 days after last CT treatment and once again koi are flashing on occation and found another fluke on the sanke. The wound is still progressing so decided to give the flukes another nuke, but this time with Telmin. Hopefully this will completely finish the job. I am currently adding the Telmin over a four hour period with UVs off. I am not sure if I should cut back on water changes for 7 days and then do a big water change then or before.?? or do I just carry on as normal. best REgards Dave

[Gazza]

Hi Dave,

Well as you have changed lots of water i would sit tight and let the Telimin do its stuff and then do a water change at the end of it.

Fingers crossed mate

[DaveB]

When is exactly the time the treatment has done the job, 48 hours or 7 days.. I am now 4 days into the treatment and have held back on water changes. One koi ( not a recent one) a chagoi has gone a bit dark and is seeking out quiet areas of the pond.It has not come up to eat today.Also A kohaku has developed a small red area wheer she may have knocked herself, hopefully a coincidence, othewise all other koi are eating well and look good.Hope this is not one treatment too far for the chag and perhaps now is a good time to start changing water as surely all the flukes should be wiped out by now but not sure about any eggs..
Best Regards dave

[DaveB]

Hi Guys. Hope you guys are still interested and you may learn from any mistakes I have made along the way mainly not having either quarantine or hospital facilties. Here we are now 7 clear days after Telmin treatment and no more flukes to be found. Hurray!. Unfortunately my chagoi got worse and when inpecting her found a few grey areas and producing heavy mucus. I imediately thought costia or chilodinella,( Can this be possible after the high doses of CT ?) however on scraping her again I can find nothing. Where am I going wrong with the scoping I wonder. Anyway I have given her a salt bath (2.4% for 10 mins)This has made a big difference in her behaviour and the grey areas have almost gone
I don,t want to give the wrong impression as all the koi are feeding well but there is something just not quite right,There are still a few issues with one or two other koi flashing only very occationally ( which seems to settle down after any treatment and only to return a week later) so I am now wondering whether to continue with salt baths on chagoi or to treat the pond with pp. I am not sure with M&F as the formalyn might upset any healing on the sanke or any other small wounds .Just for the record Water parameters are ammonia & nitrite nil, TDS 176 so salt level is now insignificant as far as formalin is concerned.Thanks for any input. Best Regards Dave

[Gazza]

Hi Dave,

They have been hit fairly well over the last few months so i wonder if just letting things settle down and new water changes will help the fish settle down.

[DaveB]

Cheers Gazza. Lets hope so. Fingers crossed.
When testing the water for chlorine which is reading zero. However when the sample is allowed to stand for 24 hours there is definately a residue of CT in the pond. This might be still helping with the sanke wound etc but it is only a very small amount. Also I undertand that even though it is now more than 7 days since the TElmin was used, this will still be in the system. So as you say I need to do a few more water changes and hopefully things will settle down.

[Manky Sanke]

Dave,

What method were you using to measure chlorine in the pond? If you use DPD1 or DPD4 tablets, any chlorine present in the sample will show up immediately as the usual pink colour but these tablets don't just indicate chlorine they are looking for any oxidising reaction.

Any immediate colour change will be due to chlorine or chloramine but even if there isn't any chlorine in the sample it will very slowly begin to turn pink anyway due to dissolved oxygen. If you were using DPD tablets and your sample was left for 24 hours, that would have been what caused the colour change.

[DaveB]

Thanks for clearing that up Sid. The tablets are DPD1 and do not show any chlorine present imediately after taking the sample. As you say it must be down to the oaygen present as I haven,t used anything oxydising since the CT a few weeks ago now and the amount of water I have changed should be well clear. Best REgards Dave

[DaveB]

Hi Dave,

They have been hit fairly well over the last few months so i wonder if just letting things settle down and new water changes will help the fish settle down.

Gazza
It is almost a couple of weeks since I have treated with Telmin. All the koi apart from the chagoi ( by the way this is one of the oldest koi I own ,possibly over 16 years old) are doing really well. After giving the chagoi another salt bath which completely removed any grey areas and reduced the amout of mucus being produced. Unfortunately she has ntot resopnded well to the second salt dip and is not coming up to feed anymore. Although still swimming around she is staying in the lower depths and on the odd occation is still flashing. I am now relunctant to give her any more salt baths and I don,t really want to treat the pond for anything else as all the other koi seem to be doing so well and when carrying out any scrapes can find nothing and the other koi have been through a lot of tratments.It would be a shame to loose her and wonder if I keep lifting her do try and identify what is ailing her I fear she will slowly deteriate until the inevitable. I now wonder if there is anything else I can do other than hope she will recover/or not.
Best Regards Dave

[Manky Sanke]

Dave,

Another point about DPD tablets is that DPD1's only measure free chlorine which means that they won't respond to any chloramine in your supply. That's ok if you're sure there isn't any chloramine in it but if you want to test for that as well, you should use DPD4's. These test for total chlorine which includes both free chlorine and chloramine.

Here's the full details of the test
http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/questi ... .html#DPD4

[DaveB]

Dave,

Another point about DPD tablets is that DPD1's only measure free chlorine which means that they won't respond to any chloramine in your supply. That's ok if you're sure there isn't any chloramine in it but if you want to test for that as well, you should use DPD4's. These test for total chlorine which includes both free chlorine and chloramine.

Here's the full details of the test
http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/questi ... .html#DPD4

Thanks once again Sid. I used to have one of those IPA test kits which you could test for both chlorine and ammonia once you neutrlised the chlorine part of the test. Not sure how acurate this was for indicating chloramine, which always read zero. Anyway as it was quite awhile ago, so perhaps it is time to test again as things never stand still. Your tips using the DPD4 tablets are very handy and I will try and buy some .( great web site by the way) Best Regards Dave

[DaveB]

Hi Guys. It is over 12 weeks now since I first treated the sanky and waht a rocky road it has been. The sanke is still with us and has done remarkably well, all things considered. Unfortunately things took a turn for the worse after the treatment of Telmin on top of everything else, which you will be to see from the photographs.I did not have the heart to subject her to any more chemicals so left her alone until now to recover/or not as the case maybe. Interestingly enough over the weeks she has pick up and up as regards feeding and vigour. You can see for yourselves whether or not the wound has progressed any. personnally I think she has and hopfully will continue to do so.
I have linked a few photographs together so you can see the difference as time has gone and judge for your selves and let me know what you think and whether ot not I have done the right thing and let nature take its course.
Day 3
Day 7
Day 17 after CT treatment
Clearly looking much better after the CT treatments
and a turn for the worse or not?1 week after treatment of Telmin for flukes
This was the point where I dispaired and have not lifted the koi since until today
Here is the latest photograph


Although the wound still looks red at the front of the wound towards the head, there is definately a covering of skin and because of this I did not disturb the wound in anyway and returned her to the pond once more. Please let me know what you guys think and let me know if I should do anymore for her. I am planning on giving her as much heat as is affordable to help her through the winter with no lower than 14deg C. In the hope that further healing will take place.
Best Regards Dave

[Duncan]

hi Dave

i think this is trying to heal, for the moment i would not intervene keep doing what your doing by adding heat iof you like you could run low level C/T at 2 gm per 100 gallons but no more at this point

dunc