Chloramine T & new additions

[Gazza]

Hi Dave,

Sorry mate i don't know why you photos are coming out i just click on the properties on photobucket and the copy and paste it onto the post then highlight it and click the Img button.

Leading rays are hard to deal with because of the constant movement and as you say you can take the of and the next one will indeed thicken up and can be hard to tell the difference.

[Manky Sanke]

Dave,

Yesterday, when I saw that the pictures hadn't been inserted into your post, the img link was the first thing that I tried but it didn't work. I couldn't see any reason why and Mrs. Manky was hovering ready to go out, so I quickly downloaded them from Photobucket and uploaded them as an attachment.

Gazza,

I use a similar method to the way you just described when I use the img link so, out of curiosity, I've just tried it your way and it worked first time. Then tried my usual way and that also worked so I can only conclude that Photobucket may have been having an off day yesterday. I'm always posting links to images on my website, mostly they work first time, but once in a while, the same link that I always use just refuses to produce an image.

Maybe the Internet freezes occasionally until someone turns it off and then on again.

[DaveB]

Hello again
When lifting the sanke for the second baytril injection, when first looking at the wound it is does look as though it is worse, the inflamation or redness has spread. I ask myself, has this got worse through very low immune system, the antbiotic has not got hold yet or is there something in there that needs to come out. I have uploaded the photos which I hope Gazza or Syd can sort out for me.
On closer inspection there is some healing taking place which I have marked. I have also marked an area which may or may not be a scale. However it is clearly not dead because it definately does not want to come out. I aaprecieate that the scales are smaller and probably much harder in this area( due to being on the bottom) but this is like cartlage?? I am beginning to wonder if something is stuck in there. I have had another go at cleaning and sealing the area. The koi is still swimming around but sulking on occation.


You can still see after cleaning and sealing the area that there is still something in there. Any ideas guys. Your thoughts are appreciated. Best Regards Dave

[Manky Sanke]

There you go.

[Manky Sanke]

Dave, I've sussed it!!!

When you uploaded and viewed the picture in Photobucket, at the right is a links box with image information which allows you to share the photo. You copied the link by clicking "Email and IM" and a quick dialog box pops up to say that the information has been copied.

You had then copied this:
http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn310/DaveBaxt/?action=view&current=P1000370.jpg

You don't need to understand what that means but just note that it contains this bit which is search information:
?action=view&current=

When I want to copy a picture, I normally right click it, pick "Properties" and copy the image address from there because that works for other images right across the Internet. But in the case of Photobucket, the image information box gives four different ways to copy the link so if you want to use that method, you should pick the "Direct Link" box which copies this link:
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn310/DaveBaxt/P1000370.jpg

That link is shorter because it doesn't contain the extra search information. Then to include it in your post, you wrap it in (stick it in between) img tags as usual so that it looks like this:
[img]http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn310/DaveBaxt/P1000370.jpg[/img]

The third and fourth links in the image information box give other ways to do it for those who want to show off. I won't get any more complicated by describing how they work but if you play with them, you'll see what they do.

[DaveB]

Hi Syd once again I have been trying the first method for some reason without success however I have tried the second way here goes again


Thanks Syd I have now managed to do it both ways

[Gazza]

Hi Dave,

Well that is a fair amount of damage to deal with and i would think your wound must nearly be breaching through the layers of the skin so trying to keep on top of this and keep it sealed and stopping the onset of dropsy is going to be the main worry here. For sure it will need more treatments and a lot of looking after and one you will have to be on top of.

Is there any way you can give us a bigger picture so we can see the wound close up as i am not sure if thats one of the layers OS skin or muscle or scales

[DaveB]

Gazza
I shall be lifting the koi tomorrow so I will try and get a closer picture. The bit I am worried about is the bit you can still see after I have sealed the wound. You can still see it even with the sealer over the top. All I can say is it is quite tough like cartlage and is very reluctant to come out. If it needs to come out I think I will need to cut it out with a pair of very strong sissors or stainless steel side cutters, both of which I have. I appreciate that if it is dead it would need to come out. However if it were dead, surely it would be easier to remove. Thanks once again for your input as two heads is always better than one in these situations. remarkably the koi is moving about a bit better today after the second injection so hopefully I will see some improvement tomorrow.Fingers crossed
Best REgards. Dave

[Gazza]

Hi Dave,

I forgot to ask how you was injecting the fish on my last post i thought i had ............. having a senior moment

Yes if the "part" is of no use it will need removing as otherwise it may well hamper the wound healing but so hard to see from a small picture and hopefully Dunc will drop in for a look.

[DaveB]

I am injecting in alternating pectoral muscles cleaning before & after with Rocol and sealer. I am going by Duncans book after I wieghed the koi which came out at 6kg. Duncan also states that the pectoral muscle is a good place for high strength antibiotic. I am using 10% baytril. On a personal point of view I think it is much safer in the pectoral muscle as it is easier to clean and see what I am doing. Do you think it would be better nearer the wound or would there be more loss of antibiotic out of the wound itself. I too have a few senior moments especially when it comes to uploading pisctures.

[Gazza]

Hi Dave,

In the pec (IM) is where most will inject as it is safe but when given this was the AB will go through the system and the Kidney can take some sting out of it where if you inject into the abdominal cavity (IP) the fish can get a better dose but of course more care has to be taken when doing it this way.

[DaveB]

Gazza Cheers for that. The Baytril injection works out at 0.84 ml for a koi of this wieght. 6 kg I am giving her slightly more 1ml each time as I understand Baytril is less critical. Perhaps this will allow far any loss in the kidneys.However if there is not much response next time perhaps I will have a go at the IP injection.
I have just read in Duncans book about IP injections and noticed that you give it 10mm off centre to avoid a very hard piece of cartlage running dead centre. This is what I think we can see in the wound. This is starting to make sense now. perhaps thiscartlage needs to be left alone, now that we think we know what it is. However this cartlage might prevent any skin growing over it when the koi moves. I might l try and remove any rough pieces of cartlage that are sticking out and hope this heals better. Hope that makes sense. Once again thanks for the input.Best Regards Dave

[DaveB]

Hi Guys Day 5 , 3 rd injection. Prior to lift the koi for the 3rd baytril injection the koi is swimming around quite well. Here are the photos




I definately think there is some progress as most of the red is now the merchuchrome from the previous treatment. As you can see from the close up that the cartlage is sticking out a fair bit. There is quite a lot of new skin but still not filling the hole ,so I am now toying with the idea of filling the hole with orabase paste prior to sealing rather than just the powder.Whats say you Gazza

[Gazza]

Hi Dave,

Yes i think i would get it all cleaned up and then pack it out as best you can and plenty of lock and seal as well to keep the wound sealed and clean and away from the water to give the fish the best of chances.

[DaveB]

Gazza I have made a paste from Orabase powder and bees propolis. It is very sticyk . I tried a bit on the back of my hand and it was nearly inpossible to remove by water alone. I thought this might do the trick instead of merchurochrome. What do you think
Best Regards Dave