Simply Koi and More Koi

This summer I am going to be building a Koi Pond and have done alot of research, the pond is going to be 12ftx8ftx4ft I think, I will have to remeasure when I get home. I was just curios as to what the essentials needed are, I will have a custom filter, UV steriliser and protein skimmer eventually. Oh, and a bottom drain. The pond will probably be rendered as the costs that I have accumulated for this are cheaper than Butyl liner. So i dont really know what I need and how to go about it. Anyhelp will be appreciated

Thanks

Hi Koine,
I only started in october last year and my pond was 12'x12'x a stepped bottom of 2,3 and 4 foot which had a buytl liner. The liner and the underlay came to around £450 i think. Im now on my second pond build (and hopefully last) which is also going to be block built and rendered. Are you going to fibreglass it also over the render if so I cannot see how your rendered pond is going to be cheaper than a liner pond unless you are doing all the work yourself?
Only advice i can give is to make sure you get it right 1st time otherwise you will be doing it again very soon....guaranteed.
theres enough experienced pond keepers on here to give you the right advice, just be patient and dont rush into things...plan it well...not like me

cheers Ian

Its going to be me and my dad who are building it so I'm not on my own I'm not sure what I'm going to do with regards to fiberglass which is why I'm doing alot of research on pond building and looking at some builds. Hopefully this will be the only time I build it.

Thanks

I think many of us have said we are only building one pond

When you look into the cost of a liner and underlay also get costs for fiberglassing as you may be surprised and find that for not much extra you can have it glassed which will last a lifetime and have many benefits.

Pond building is easy...dig a hole,throw down a base and some blocks and seal and fill with water.......dont we all wish it was that easy

You need to plan and budget as ponds are not cheap to build or even run so have you thought about and filtration and how it works,gravity or pump fed,bottom drains and pipe size,length of run and pump size,heating or not,UV or not,skimmer or not and many other variants.

OK so it all sound mind blowing but it doesn't have to be and i am sure we will be able to help if you wish its just about getting it correct and this will be the first step to saving you some money as re-building or adding new filtration can end up expensive especially if the filtration or pond doesn't work correctly and your fish fall apart

So what is your plan and what shape is the pond going to be and how will the filters work and have you any ideas on pumps and stuff and flow rates yet

Have you done any pond visits or visits to any dealers as this will defiantly give you a head start on how things need to work.

I haven't done any pond visits yet but I did get a quick look at the filtration behind my local fish place but they only stock Israeli so there is not much point in me buying livestock from there even though stocking should be the last thing on my mind right now. I know a couple of people that keep ponds so I'm going to see if I can have a gander there. I plan to have a bottom drain and gravity fed but I'm not too sure on how the bottom drain works and what the benefits to it are.

OK i will see if i can explain a bit about the bottom drain and i am sure some will join in and help where i go wrong

The good thing about a bottom drain is it give you the opportunity of pulling the water from the bottom of the pond and into the filtration and in doing this the mechanical stages of the filter (this can be a settlement chamber,brushes,matting,foams,media,ect) can separate as much of the waste out as possible so that little or now waste material enters into the biological stages of the filtration (this is the place where the media works along with lots of bacteria) which is where a process called the Nitrogen Cycle occurs which makes sure the water will return to the pond void of Ammonia & Nitrate as best as possible and this is why a filter is so important as if we get this wrong we end up with very unhappy fish.

This is the bottom drain pipe work in my pond and a few pictures of how it was done so you may be able to see what it is and how it goes back to the filters.With a gravity feed system your filters have to be just above the water level of your pond as otherwise because water finds its own level they would always be overflowing So once its all filled the water in the filters and pond will be the same and then when you turn on the pump it pulls the water from the filters and back into the pond and they will basically stay around the same level (depending on the filtration which can have some head loss but thats another subject)

Hole dug and 4" pipe work and bottom drain in position:

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... 2_1270.jpg[/img]

This was then concreted in position so we had a good base to lay the blocks on:

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... 2_1289.jpg[/img]

Blocks were laid and as you can see we are up to ground level and the pipe is much higher waiting for the filtration:

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... 3_1301.jpg[/img]

Pond was then rendered and this includes the pipe work through the walls being fitted along with the skimmer:

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... 3_1310.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... 3_1309.jpg[/img]

This was then fiberglassed to seal it all off:

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... 3_1324.jpg[/img]

Trenches for pipe work and filter base was the dug out

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... 3_1325.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... 3_1333.jpg[/img]

The bottom drain pipe work was then marked out and fitted into the filtration:

[img]http://www.koipix.com/gallery/albums/userpi ... 3_1349.jpg[/img]

So hopefully this will give you some idea about the base and bottom drain part and i hope the pictures help and any questions just fire away and we will be as much help as possible

Thanks Gazza, those pics helped alot. When you rendered did you just cement the blocks and then fiberglass over it'? I'm beginning to understand how the bottom drain works but just curios how it mantains its siphon. It does siphon doesn't it or is it connected to a pumps inlet?

Forgot to ask aswell, is the fiberglass just the same as the pond paint like this stuff:
http://www.pondcoat.co.uk/product/POND-11

Hi Koine,

Yes once the render is dry the fiberglass goes into the render they add a stuff (cant remember the name ) which the glass gets laid up on and then once its ready a flow coat of your colour goes on top.

If you can imagine the water travailing down the bottom drain and into the filter it will always find its own level and this will sit in the filters and pipe work.The pipe work which comes out from the filters will be attached to your pump so as you turn on your pump it will then pull the water from the filter and pump it back to the pond.As the water is pulled from the filter the filter head (hight of water) will drop slightly so the water from the pond will automatically flow down the bottom drain and back to the pond to try to level off the water again.

Hope this makes sense so basically gravity fed means the water makes its own way to the filter from the pond but is then pumped back to the pond.

That makes perfect sense, so the render is just cement or is that some special stuff too?

The render is a mix of sand and cement and you can also put some fibers in it to give it some extra strength if you like

Ah, I see. I think that will be the way to go then. Ill try get some info on the filter I'm geting built aswell.

Koine -best of luck with pond. Gazza an excellent helpful thread thank you.

I do have a few further questions re. render and fibre glass paint and colour. I am currently designing my revised pond which will be 8 -10 thousand gallon , depth of water 7ft, gravity fed.

1. Is it advisable to add any strengthener, quick set /slow set or waterproofer additives to render?
2. Was the link to the fibre glass paint one most koi keepers use or do alternatives exist of higher/lower quality or is the recognised product the majority of pond keepers use?
3. The finished colour varies from pond to pond (blue, black, green etc.) Is blue harder to keep clean? Is black chosen by some for cosmetic reasons or have I missed something?
4. The link to uPVC areated sump raises a few questions. Is this uPVC extra strong sump? Should uPVC piping be used instead of soil piping?

My apologies, sorry to overload you with additional questions but am trying to make savings where I can, buy at reasonable prices on good advice in advance without compromising any part of the build!

Many thanks, regards, TicToc

Hi Tic Toc,

Thats a big old pond and to be honest if you are thinking about savings now then i personally would go with a smaller pond as these things are not cheap to run,please don't take this the wrong way but you are better off with a smaller pond which is over filtered than a bigger pond which is under filter as this will give you BIG problems.Then you've got the cost of running more pumps and with a pond that size you are looking at two bottom drains and two banks of filtration...big filtration,then you have to fill it (are you on a meter) and maintain it and most of all stock it.Will you be heating the pond....yes heating trust me i know it sounds mad but if you would of asked me five or six years ago about heating a koi pond i would of said you must be joking .....how wrong was i With a pond that size you need a fair amount of fish or it will look out of place and then with more fish you could have more problems especially if not planned correctly

My pond is 4500gls and is just the right size for me and i know how much that costs to run so you will be looking at twice that...............WOW you could buy a nice car for that

[color=#FF0000]1. Is it advisable to add any strengthener, quick set /slow set or waterproofer additives to render? There is a fiber mix which goes in the render if you want to use it but not all do.
2. Was the link to the fiber glass paint one most koi keepers use or do alternatives exist of higher/lower quality or is the recognised product the majority of pond keepers use? I have not used the paint before but the best way by far is fiberglass which i believe runs from about £18 - £25 per sq mtre
3. The finished colour varies from pond to pond (blue, black, green etc.) Is blue harder to keep clean? Is black chosen by some for cosmetic reasons or have I missed something? Most have black or green and to be honest within a year it normally goes a bit green/brown.
4. The link to uPVC aerated sump raises a few questions. Is this uPVC extra strong sump? Should uPVC piping be used instead of soil piping? I am not sure on the pump in question but my pond is all done in pressure pipe apart from the bottom drain which is 110mm stuff and buried in the ground.[/color]
One thing which i would suggest is an aerated Bottom Drain to give lots of air as air is very important in a pond so you will also need a few air pumps.

hiya tictoc , and welcome to koi quest...first of all theres an old adage ...thats do it once do it right..so you should build the pond to the best of your ability and funding available so lets see if we can answer a few of your questions for you ..
1...people do put fibre renders into the mix to give added strength , waterproof additives no as the sealer paints such as g4 or similar will not adhere properly
2...a1 pond paint i believe is very good , capt nemo has a super pond which is coated similar to what your thinking , imho .i would render and fibreglass every time though as i believe the costing works out similar
3.the finish coat or fibreglass flow coat is usually black or green mainly to show off the colours of the fish to there best extent..flow coating gives a smooth waxy finish which will not damagwe your fish.
4.. if building a pond aerated bottom drains are the norm now , they create a column which drives the crap down to the drain , spindrifter drains are popular in this respect , as for strength , cant help on that .....gazza will know ...any other questions fire away