Scale removal

[greg]

I have seen scales on koi removed in two distinct ways so far in my short time in this hobby.

a). Is to simply pull the scale with a pair of tweezers or similar tool

b). Is to take a scalpel and cut around the skin of the overlapping scales to enable you to slide the damaged / infected scale off the top of the area.

Now in the case of its just to save the koi i can see the sense in the speed and efficiency of option A but often in show koi, especially if the damage is minimal / low down the koi then i also see the sense in option B as it seems to cause less potential for scarring by removal pulling surrounding scale tissue.

I just wondered which method people preferred and why?

Also i'm led to believe that option B gives a better chance of the "Tissue" scale underneath the original being OK and being able to thicken and fill the gap left by the removal of the old scale meaning less chance of being able to even see the scale was removed - true?

[tomy2ponds]

Hi I only remove a scale if it is damaged or infected/dead I use tweezers I have never done option B from what I understand of it is providing the scale pocket is still intact the scale will re grow but if it is not you will be left with a scar

[Duncan]

Greg interesting question mate

i know the latter techinque you talk of is an idea mikey promotes and i dont have a huge issue with it but its kind of a half truth

the next scale lies in the epidermis pocket, if this pocket is destroyed along with the scale bud/seed there is no way another scale will grow back at the end of it .

trouble is most scales are generally pulled from bacterial ulcers where the epidermis is gone and/or the dermis leaving bare muscle on display and again there is no way this is going to generate anything but the odd random scale and will form what we call a keloid scar but it may have colour as the epithelial cells migrate inwards to fill the void

heres the thing though when none of these events have taken place and you are just pulling a raised infected scale i have yet to see anyone damage the scale or pocket the budding scale lies in to prevent regrowth ,as the scale generally comes out clean and easy and even if it requires a good old tug i still have yet to see myself or anyone else for that matter damage the pocket of the epidermis enought to cause the next scale not to regrow .

i know mikey does this when there is a huge mass of "fukerin" if i spelt that right in this case it may pay to cut around the fukerin to release the scale save pulling hge clumps of fukerin away with the sclale but even then this would not prevent the scales regrowing it would just grow back with a different amount of fukerin around it

dunc

[StuW]

Hi Duncan, just a quicky. Does it make any difference if the scale is dead or if it is removed to remove sacondary hi or the like?

[Duncan]

non at all.

if secondary hi is under the scale i often remove the scale

[StuW]

Ok next question, say I have removed the healthy red scale and have the following options
a) topical and lock & seal
b) lock & seal
c) treat the Q/T with 0.3% salt at 25oC and nothing else.
At present would think c would be my choice, as its less invasive but perhaps b with a being my least favoured option.
Just want a second opinion.

[Gazza]

Hi Guys,

I have carried out both options and note had any problems and i think it depends on the situation and if you are handy with a scalpel as you can cause more problems if not careful.

If its due to a bacterial or damage then the scale will normally pull out fairly easy and like Duncan has already said they will grow back as long as the pocket is not damaged.

If its for a "dodgy" scale removal then you have to way up the options and do the one you are most comfortable with.

Stu,

If there are no underline problems and it is done and all clean and going back into a system with "good" water and temperature (not something you would want to be doing in the winter) then you should not have to do much at all and a topical just to make sure should be fine IMO.

[wilf]

I just pull em out as shown by the great man himself and then a little dab of mercurachrome just in case

[Brockp]

Well guys just got to the end of this thread.

I remove the scales that come out easily with tweezers. Irrigate all the pockets with H2O2 and dress afterwards with mercurochrome leaving as many scale pockets as I can. These cell pockets from Islands of regeneration and if treated properly can help repopulate the area.

My basic rules are;

1) Never leave any dead/necrotic tissue in the wound.
2) Leave as many viable scale pockets as you can
3) Irrigate with H2O2
4) Dress with Close&Seal
5) Give a dose of antibiotic ( I prefer Amikacin)
6) Say a prayer
7) Have a beer
Do not disturb a well sealed wound unless the fish is not getting better as taking of the sticky stuff will also take of the fragile epithelium growing under it to heal the ulcer.

An amazing number get better with very little residual hypertophic (keloid) scar.

Peter