Cosmetic Surgery Anyone ?

[B.Scott]

My feeling is that most modifications are not to win shows but to extract more money for what would otherwise be a marginal fish. After all the bottom line is to go where the money is. Winning a show is nice but is only indirectly a money earner. managing to squeeze a modified fish through a judging will get the breeder prestige and some extra cash for the single fish but compare that to being able to make a dozen $1000 fish into $3000+ fish. This is where it starts to get interesting, financially at least. Often the difference between the two is just a couple of slight flaws in the pattern. In general the majority of such fish are not going to show anyway. So if the owner is that much happier with his fish then the breeder may see it as a win-win situation. But personally I would feel a bit cheated in such a situation if for no other reason than the breeder is making excess profit over my back but then again if the fish is greatly improved and it was slightly cheaper than a naturel born fish I might not see it as such a bad deal.

B.Scott

[tomc]

Anything with a "future" may well get the knife. As there's no "price list" to koi then it's simply what has been presented before you. If the modification is sustainable (i.e. won't revert) then I don't have an issue with the breeder doing it. The skill is in selecting the koi that have potential (edited or not) and having long term parents to produce this.

Greg -

Um, I'm a bit wary of posting cosmetic pictures. Even on here. But I'll see.

The koi that needs the most attention actually has a worse "cosmetic" problem. It has hikui and has had for sometime (well actually "on delivery" it had it but that's another story for private consumption). I treated it last year to some good effect but it's back and probably worse now. I intend to treat this, clean up a few rogue bits of beni under some scales, and also some beni on the nose. You know the koi - the "sister" of Paul's/Koi Boy's now-dead sanke. The koi itself is probably to be moved on at some point this year.

Another koi has minor, tiny shimmies (finding a certain breeder throws these even in low pH water). Another rather good sanke has thrown sumi on its head/nose - I'm trying to work out if that's a beauty spot or an ugly spot! My shiro has an increasing hi colour in the eyelid but that's a surgery I won't try myself.

Tom

[greg]

Greg - Um, I'm a bit wary of posting cosmetic pictures. Even on here. But I'll see.

Tom - Fair enough. To be honest i can understand the reluctance for varying reasons even though at present this forum offers a better level of protection to the "outside" than any other.

The koi that needs the most attention actually has a worse "cosmetic" problem. It has hikui and has had for sometime (well actually "on delivery" it had it but that's another story for private consumption). I treated it last year to some good effect but it's back and probably worse now. I intend to treat this, clean up a few rogue bits of beni under some scales, and also some beni on the nose. You know the koi - the "sister" of Paul's/Koi Boy's now-dead sanke. The koi itself is probably to be moved on at some point this year.

Ahh yeah i know the koi. Shame about the Hikui - be good if you would talk through in another thread how you treated and the level of success you had in terms of length that you held the dreaded off for. Shame your thinking of needing to move her on - stunning koi and one i have liked for a long while. She must be 8 / 9 now? I know a while ago i saw her (Jan 2009?) and she was looking good - how is the growth and development gone apart from the issues? Mind you still like the one you call "bendy" too.. as i always have.

Another koi has minor, tiny shimmies (finding a certain breeder throws these even in low pH water). Another rather good sanke has thrown sumi on its head/nose - I'm trying to work out if that's a beauty spot or an ugly spot! My shiro has an increasing hi colour in the eyelid but that's a surgery I won't try myself.

So just "minor edits" then - apart from maybe the eye on the shiro - did not even know that it was possible to do this? any idea how?

[tomc]

Greg

Had someone round last weekend who was mad about "bendy". I had to eventually put them out of their misery and point out that perhaps the sumi was very good, that she was well over 80cm, had a good body shape, but might not be exactly straight!

OK, well here is the sanke.

In terms of your development question - well size wise she is 75cm so growth has been modest compared those she shares the pond with, sumi is much more developed. Skin is no where near the class of other sankes in the pond, but "ok".

So, the edits to be done:

1/ The nose - could be scalpeled or acid. Acid.
2/ There are stray yellow/orange beni patches between first and second dan. The flash tends to eliminate them but you'll be able to see one infront of the first major block of sumi. It's surface beni so scalpel.
3/ There are various small "growths" or blobs on the white down the koi. Again the flash hides these. These can be scratch out, and causterised.

If that was it then it'd be fine, but unfortunately the beni is trashed with hikui. The second photo shows this better. There's so many areas of it (you can see it as raised areas on both dans, though it's more prominant on the front dan).

Anyway, I shall treat/deal with over the next couple of weeks. The koi is coming indoors and going into heat (currently at 17c). I'll see what I can do with her, but the reality is she'll be sold-on later this year with transparency on the issue.

Tom

[greg]

Tom,

Yep thats the koi i thought you meant. Shame about the Hikui. The rest you make seem so easy to fix up. The acid you mention is that along the lines of the type of stuff the breeders would use? - A simple apply and let do its work?



Anyone else got anything to add - views? questions? - as it kinda feels like a 3 way conversation at the minute, be nice to hear what others think.

[Gazza]

Hi Tom,

Nice fish mate and i am sure with a bit of nip and tuck you will get it sorted

Out of interest what did you use on the Hikui

[tomc]

Last year - honey and salt.

This year - not decided yet!

Tom

[Gazza]

Hi Tom,

I had a feeling you would of tried the Honey & Salt i take it did not work as well as expected

[tomc]

Hi

For the areas that were affected last year it seems to have done the job. Last year it was a few areas but signficant damage.

This year we seem to have blemishes across the beni so I'm not holding out much hope here (where hope means getting any decent beni condition back). Too much damage.

Tom

[Geoff9]

Hi All
I have a Kohaku that has a shimmie(I think)never thought about getting it off as I wouldn't like to cause any damage,it's the one in the middle of the picture is it a shimmie as it looks a bit big,had her 4 years now..we call her dot.

Regards Geoff

[Gazza]

Hi Geoff,

Yes that does look like a shimmie and a bit of a big one.

[tomc]

Yes, that's looking like requiring a pick axe to get at!

You'd probably have to dig into the koi to extract that one given the deepness of the colour that looks like it's come right up from the scale.

Or if it were on one scale only then if that scale "went missing in action" then you might be in business.

Difficult position on the shoulder there - if it goes wrong then the issue is so visible.

Tom

[Geoff9]

Thanks for your comments,Gazza and tomc,it does spoil her looks,but shes friendly and is happy to feed from my hand,this is perhaps a better picture.

Regards Geoff