Hi All
I have just been reading on the Koi Mag forum a question asked about being loyal to one dealer and does it pay.
It seemed to spark a huge response so thought I would see what you guys thought. I am now at a point in Koi Keeping that I want to pay more for better quality Koi, and have come to the desision after speaking to a friend that sticking with a couple of dealers is the best way forward.
So what do you guys think about this subject
LOYALTY OR NOT
Moderators: B.Scott, vippymini, Gazza, Manky Sanke
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
hi Kim
I think it was more a dig at a certain debyshire dealer than a genuin question,but loyalty has to be a two way street,
When I first got interested in Koi a DVD and magazine said"it was a good thing to stick to one dealer" the thought being he will better understand your needs and help when you need it,but if you pick the wrong dealer to start with it's not much use...who would you trust to be your only koi dealer?
Regards Geoff
I think it was more a dig at a certain debyshire dealer than a genuin question,but loyalty has to be a two way street,
When I first got interested in Koi a DVD and magazine said"it was a good thing to stick to one dealer" the thought being he will better understand your needs and help when you need it,but if you pick the wrong dealer to start with it's not much use...who would you trust to be your only koi dealer?
Regards Geoff
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
Hi Geoff
A friend of mine has said to me to pick a couple of dealers and stick with them, which I must admit I would prefer to do, but picking only a couple of dealers would be really difficult, I have got it down to 3 dealers and 2 english breeders, the reason I have got it to this number because each one I trust and I do like the Koi they have.
Dry goods I think should be got at the best price possible
A friend of mine has said to me to pick a couple of dealers and stick with them, which I must admit I would prefer to do, but picking only a couple of dealers would be really difficult, I have got it down to 3 dealers and 2 english breeders, the reason I have got it to this number because each one I trust and I do like the Koi they have.
Dry goods I think should be got at the best price possible
-
Gazza
- architeuthis moderator
- Posts: 5306
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:24 pm
- Location: Essex,UK
- Contact:
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
Hi Kim,
I also look into that site but not for long due to the posts similar to the dealer one as it is as Geoff said based on knocking a particular dealer but hay ho there you go.
I DO believe in sticking with people you know and i use two dealers and the reason why is because i know they are safe and when i buy fish i am not risking my collection. I have used the same ones for many years and have a great relationship with them in fact i was out with them last night till the early hours
We was not partying but collecting their new fish just in from Japan 
I use them because i know there QT protocol and have seen what they do and because i trust them and know the fish will also be safe which is very important to me. very much doubt i would be able to to buy my collection again at this particular time if i for some reason had a wipe out which would mean the end of the hobby for me and not something i would like
So for me its not about the money its about the safety factor and knowing i can trust the guys i use and also having a good bit of banter along the way which can only be done when you know people and are all cool with each other.
I also look into that site but not for long due to the posts similar to the dealer one as it is as Geoff said based on knocking a particular dealer but hay ho there you go.
I DO believe in sticking with people you know and i use two dealers and the reason why is because i know they are safe and when i buy fish i am not risking my collection. I have used the same ones for many years and have a great relationship with them in fact i was out with them last night till the early hours
We was not partying but collecting their new fish just in from Japan I use them because i know there QT protocol and have seen what they do and because i trust them and know the fish will also be safe which is very important to me. very much doubt i would be able to to buy my collection again at this particular time if i for some reason had a wipe out which would mean the end of the hobby for me and not something i would like
So for me its not about the money its about the safety factor and knowing i can trust the guys i use and also having a good bit of banter along the way which can only be done when you know people and are all cool with each other.
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
Kim,
I typically never reply to this type of post anymore but as this is in the "private" domain so to speak then I'll give you the courtesy of a reply. It was a shame that the thread you mentioned got "pulled" as it seems to happen all to often on that forum but I guess they have commercial interests to think of ahead of free speech. I do however agree the topic was more of a swipe at a particular dealer or at least ended up that way.
I do not think a single koi dealer is healthy for either the koi keeper or the koi dealer. I have done the loyal buyer thing for the first 4-5years of my koi keeping hobby and all it did was bite me in the backside when I tried to gain my own experiences let alone actually dare to buy a koi elsewhere. I would not be inclined to do the single koi dealer thing again but I do have when it comes to koi purchases a "main" dealer who gets what I'd call all my serious koi purchases and then other dealers I monitor what they are importing and then would buy from if they have the right koi at the right money.
As for dry goods - I'm sorry to say its a free for all as far as I'm concerned - the product I want at the price I want but with service to match. However the koi club I am a member of operates a bulk buy deal where they negotiate discounts on products that koi keepers will want over the season. So far that has included:- Food, UV bulbs, Purifier Cartridges, Water additives etc etc. This works great as it helps the koi keeper get good prices but also helps the dealers who are prepared to offer bulk discounts get the sales and build a customer base.
As a side note:- where I got my "backside biten" will NEVER see a penny of my money again and will NEVER get given a recommendation from me either.
Trick me once, shame on you - trick me twice, shame on me!!
I typically never reply to this type of post anymore but as this is in the "private" domain so to speak then I'll give you the courtesy of a reply. It was a shame that the thread you mentioned got "pulled" as it seems to happen all to often on that forum but I guess they have commercial interests to think of ahead of free speech. I do however agree the topic was more of a swipe at a particular dealer or at least ended up that way.
I do not think a single koi dealer is healthy for either the koi keeper or the koi dealer. I have done the loyal buyer thing for the first 4-5years of my koi keeping hobby and all it did was bite me in the backside when I tried to gain my own experiences let alone actually dare to buy a koi elsewhere. I would not be inclined to do the single koi dealer thing again but I do have when it comes to koi purchases a "main" dealer who gets what I'd call all my serious koi purchases and then other dealers I monitor what they are importing and then would buy from if they have the right koi at the right money.
As for dry goods - I'm sorry to say its a free for all as far as I'm concerned - the product I want at the price I want but with service to match. However the koi club I am a member of operates a bulk buy deal where they negotiate discounts on products that koi keepers will want over the season. So far that has included:- Food, UV bulbs, Purifier Cartridges, Water additives etc etc. This works great as it helps the koi keeper get good prices but also helps the dealers who are prepared to offer bulk discounts get the sales and build a customer base.
As a side note:- where I got my "backside biten" will NEVER see a penny of my money again and will NEVER get given a recommendation from me either.
Trick me once, shame on you - trick me twice, shame on me!!
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
It's a shame you can't post a bad experience from a dealer on a forum as long as it's the truth,it's a help to forum members so they can make an informed choice,you can't say it's cowardly as the dealers can reply,
but if you can't post on said dealers forum apart from saying there great and all the bead filters and stuff they sell are amazing because you get the post deleted,just my opinion after getting screwed for the forth time because I'm not as smart as Greg
Sorry I have gone a bit off topic Kim,I only buy one koi a year because thats what my limited koi fund allows,so when it goes wrong it leaves a bitter tast.
Regards Geoff
but if you can't post on said dealers forum apart from saying there great and all the bead filters and stuff they sell are amazing because you get the post deleted,just my opinion after getting screwed for the forth time because I'm not as smart as Greg
Sorry I have gone a bit off topic Kim,I only buy one koi a year because thats what my limited koi fund allows,so when it goes wrong it leaves a bitter tast.
Regards Geoff
-
Gazza
- architeuthis moderator
- Posts: 5306
- Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:24 pm
- Location: Essex,UK
- Contact:
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
Hi Geoff,
I think its time you look for another dealer if you are not satisfied with the one you use have you not got any other koi mates who can point you in the direction of someone
Also a lot of dealers do ship koi now and i know its hard to pick from a picture you could always phone them for advice and to give a better description of the fish as surly it cant be as bad as you have had it recently
I think its time you look for another dealer if you are not satisfied with the one you use have you not got any other koi mates who can point you in the direction of someone
Also a lot of dealers do ship koi now and i know its hard to pick from a picture you could always phone them for advice and to give a better description of the fish as surly it cant be as bad as you have had it recently
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
Hi Gazza
There are a couple of dealer I might have a go with,Deron and Mike Snedan(spelling)have been mentioned to me as fair people,trouble was I had a £100(£1000 spent)in points to spend,thats why I had a go off the japan page in October and did want an Ochiba for my pond plus the "discount" made it a resonable buy,
Just wish he had told me the koi had a piece out of one of it's pec fins before I made the trip,it's not the end of the world just so anoying that I should get caught again,makes me wonder how many customers who buy koi off a Japanese blog get the koi they ordered in good condition,
The first koi I bought from a Japan trip got put in a holding pond and then got lost after a few months,another one had the pec fins the wrong way round(honest) and A shiro I went to pick up had an hole in it's stomach when lifted out the pond in a plastic bag,so you can see why I'm not too sure about buying any more koi even thought I have plenty of room in my pond.
Regards Geoff
There are a couple of dealer I might have a go with,Deron and Mike Snedan(spelling)have been mentioned to me as fair people,trouble was I had a £100(£1000 spent)in points to spend,thats why I had a go off the japan page in October and did want an Ochiba for my pond plus the "discount" made it a resonable buy,
Just wish he had told me the koi had a piece out of one of it's pec fins before I made the trip,it's not the end of the world just so anoying that I should get caught again,makes me wonder how many customers who buy koi off a Japanese blog get the koi they ordered in good condition,
The first koi I bought from a Japan trip got put in a holding pond and then got lost after a few months,another one had the pec fins the wrong way round(honest) and A shiro I went to pick up had an hole in it's stomach when lifted out the pond in a plastic bag,so you can see why I'm not too sure about buying any more koi even thought I have plenty of room in my pond.
Regards Geoff
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
Hey Geoff,
Your smart so don't knock yourself. As for "bitter taste" - know the feeling and I will never forget how I got treated. I have been back and had a look since, with the koi club I am a member of, as the chairman smoothed things over but I didn't feel comfortable and I won't be going again. I just cannot forget... maybe that makes me a bad person or makes me silly to not let it go but.... that's me.
Its no secret who the dealer in my case was and I would hope that anyone who knows me knows the issue's I had and with who. Thing is in my time in the hobby - loyalty becomes obvious - you notice names and people that once were very apparent shopping at any dealer over time. If those names constantly change and you see no / very few long term customers who have also climbed the quality ladder with said dealer then you need to know why.
No point in asking the dealer either - you want the opinions of his customers and why they moved on. Hopefully they will be honest enough to tell you and not simply try to move you to the new dealer they use.
Loyalty should be a two way street - you shop there and in return get looked after and I don't mean in terms of points, or members discounts etc. I mean good honest customer service such as fixing issues with koi that turn out male when advertised and sold as female, Damaged koi bought off pictures, pond visits if required to help the customer. Lets be honest here - we all make up our mind of the koi we want if a price we are prepared to pay so its the "service" that makes the difference.
My current main dealer who gets my "serious" purchases has spent time talking to me this week about my new koi that has been shipped to say its landed safely, will be allowed to settle before being blood tested and given me an approx collection date. We have also discussed my direction in the hobby and if I'm happy with things, the way I'm working on my water and how i can tweak and improve things more - time spent talking to me that cost neither of us anything but mattered to me. That's what gets my service and custom not gimmicks.
Would agree with Gazza - if anyone is not getting the service they expect with their dealer then first have a discussion and explain to them your not happy and tell them how you want it fixing. If they cannot fix it then simply move on. There are plenty of good dealers out there all over the UK who can and will help it just a question of finding one that your happy with so don't settle for shoddy service / poor treatment. In retail the customer is ALWAYS right and that should always be the case. I was bought up in retail with a family business and my father would have throttled me if I'd treated his customers the way some of these dealers do.
Your smart so don't knock yourself. As for "bitter taste" - know the feeling and I will never forget how I got treated. I have been back and had a look since, with the koi club I am a member of, as the chairman smoothed things over but I didn't feel comfortable and I won't be going again. I just cannot forget... maybe that makes me a bad person or makes me silly to not let it go but.... that's me.
Its no secret who the dealer in my case was and I would hope that anyone who knows me knows the issue's I had and with who. Thing is in my time in the hobby - loyalty becomes obvious - you notice names and people that once were very apparent shopping at any dealer over time. If those names constantly change and you see no / very few long term customers who have also climbed the quality ladder with said dealer then you need to know why.
No point in asking the dealer either - you want the opinions of his customers and why they moved on. Hopefully they will be honest enough to tell you and not simply try to move you to the new dealer they use.
Loyalty should be a two way street - you shop there and in return get looked after and I don't mean in terms of points, or members discounts etc. I mean good honest customer service such as fixing issues with koi that turn out male when advertised and sold as female, Damaged koi bought off pictures, pond visits if required to help the customer. Lets be honest here - we all make up our mind of the koi we want if a price we are prepared to pay so its the "service" that makes the difference.
My current main dealer who gets my "serious" purchases has spent time talking to me this week about my new koi that has been shipped to say its landed safely, will be allowed to settle before being blood tested and given me an approx collection date. We have also discussed my direction in the hobby and if I'm happy with things, the way I'm working on my water and how i can tweak and improve things more - time spent talking to me that cost neither of us anything but mattered to me. That's what gets my service and custom not gimmicks.
Would agree with Gazza - if anyone is not getting the service they expect with their dealer then first have a discussion and explain to them your not happy and tell them how you want it fixing. If they cannot fix it then simply move on. There are plenty of good dealers out there all over the UK who can and will help it just a question of finding one that your happy with so don't settle for shoddy service / poor treatment. In retail the customer is ALWAYS right and that should always be the case. I was bought up in retail with a family business and my father would have throttled me if I'd treated his customers the way some of these dealers do.
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
Hi Guy's
Please believe me when I asked this question it was not for gossip but honest answers. I have been very lucky with a Koi Dealership that happened to be the first Koi Dealer I ever knew exsisted (when I first started keeping koi) I was a little upset the other week because I have been going there for over 10 years and never once been offered a discount or given anything for my custom, but friends who I have introduced had been given huge discounts and given dry goods, all of a very high value. Over the years I have introduced a fair few people to this dealer's and all have purchased Koi and dry goods and to no benefit of me. Not that I introduced people for that but it did sting just a little a few weeks back. But having said that I will still use this dealership as I like their Koi.
Over the years I have become friends with quite a few Koi Keepers and I think being able to trust them in their knowledge goes a long way in helping people like myself. I enjoy very much the health side of keeping koi and I have spent many years trying to learn as much as I can on keeping my Koi as healthy as possible. But now I am at a stage where I would dearly love to improve on the Koi I buy. I trust a few dealers, and as I will have to move back up north very soon, I need to get in my head how to proceed. I have chosen 3 dealers who I will buy from purely because I trust them, and the 2 english breeders, again because I trust them. I have a list of which Koi I would like and I will choose very carefully when I do buy, which now will not be not as soon as I hoped as the whole pond has to be started up again
I also tend to use one dealer for my dry goods, but I must say I do not buy and have never bought Koi fom this dealer, but I know I will get a good service from them and I have been a customer of theirs for at least 8 years.
I am a strong believer of being able to trust people we come across in life, although I have been let down on many occassions for my trust, but I am very very lucky to have some very good friends in the Koi world and I trust what they tell me, and thank them for their advice and help. Most people in the Koi world are the nicest people you could wish to meet, but sadly as in all walks of life their are those who want to be king, they are their own worst enemy in the long run and what goes around comes around.
Please believe me when I asked this question it was not for gossip but honest answers. I have been very lucky with a Koi Dealership that happened to be the first Koi Dealer I ever knew exsisted (when I first started keeping koi) I was a little upset the other week because I have been going there for over 10 years and never once been offered a discount or given anything for my custom, but friends who I have introduced had been given huge discounts and given dry goods, all of a very high value. Over the years I have introduced a fair few people to this dealer's and all have purchased Koi and dry goods and to no benefit of me. Not that I introduced people for that but it did sting just a little a few weeks back. But having said that I will still use this dealership as I like their Koi.
Over the years I have become friends with quite a few Koi Keepers and I think being able to trust them in their knowledge goes a long way in helping people like myself. I enjoy very much the health side of keeping koi and I have spent many years trying to learn as much as I can on keeping my Koi as healthy as possible. But now I am at a stage where I would dearly love to improve on the Koi I buy. I trust a few dealers, and as I will have to move back up north very soon, I need to get in my head how to proceed. I have chosen 3 dealers who I will buy from purely because I trust them, and the 2 english breeders, again because I trust them. I have a list of which Koi I would like and I will choose very carefully when I do buy, which now will not be not as soon as I hoped as the whole pond has to be started up again
I also tend to use one dealer for my dry goods, but I must say I do not buy and have never bought Koi fom this dealer, but I know I will get a good service from them and I have been a customer of theirs for at least 8 years.
I am a strong believer of being able to trust people we come across in life, although I have been let down on many occassions for my trust, but I am very very lucky to have some very good friends in the Koi world and I trust what they tell me, and thank them for their advice and help. Most people in the Koi world are the nicest people you could wish to meet, but sadly as in all walks of life their are those who want to be king, they are their own worst enemy in the long run and what goes around comes around.
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
Kim,
Simple answer is if you have dealers you trust in the area you currently live in then stick with them. No point in changing dealers just because you move. Many koi keepers drive many miles to their chosen dealers.
On the not getting the service later customers get or not getting the "introductory offers" of a new customer. Sound familiar? - Broadband providers, Digital TV providers etc etc - This happens in all walks of life and its up to you as the customer to put your point across clearly and calmly at make them aware of your issues. If you don't then they will not know your unhappy and cannot do anything about it as I said in my post above - the customer is always right - its up to the retail outlet to realize this and act accordingly. If they don't then you have a decision to make.
Simple answer is if you have dealers you trust in the area you currently live in then stick with them. No point in changing dealers just because you move. Many koi keepers drive many miles to their chosen dealers.
On the not getting the service later customers get or not getting the "introductory offers" of a new customer. Sound familiar? - Broadband providers, Digital TV providers etc etc - This happens in all walks of life and its up to you as the customer to put your point across clearly and calmly at make them aware of your issues. If you don't then they will not know your unhappy and cannot do anything about it as I said in my post above - the customer is always right - its up to the retail outlet to realize this and act accordingly. If they don't then you have a decision to make.
Re: LOYALTY OR NOT
Hi Greg
Thank you for your reply. Where I have to move back to there are no good dealers, believe me I have tried to find them. Maybe I am going in the wrong direction
But I know a couple of dealers that I do know will ship their Koi, so I think that will be my decision, I am virtually guaranteed that thier Koi are good quality and I know they wouldn't sell any koi which are not of their standard, seeing as they are all hand picked by themselves in Japan. Also these dealers will take the time to discuss the good and bad points of the Koi they have for sale and will spend time with you no matter how little or how much you have to spend. Now to me that is someone you can trust.
I have wasted so much money in the past on buying sick and injured Koi, or wasted money on Koi that I believed were of a better quality only to be dissapointed later on.
Thank you for your reply. Where I have to move back to there are no good dealers, believe me I have tried to find them. Maybe I am going in the wrong direction
But I know a couple of dealers that I do know will ship their Koi, so I think that will be my decision, I am virtually guaranteed that thier Koi are good quality and I know they wouldn't sell any koi which are not of their standard, seeing as they are all hand picked by themselves in Japan. Also these dealers will take the time to discuss the good and bad points of the Koi they have for sale and will spend time with you no matter how little or how much you have to spend. Now to me that is someone you can trust.
I have wasted so much money in the past on buying sick and injured Koi, or wasted money on Koi that I believed were of a better quality only to be dissapointed later on.