How can we remove metals from our pond water
Moderators: B.Scott, vippymini, Gazza, Manky Sanke
How can we remove metals from our pond water
A friend of mine has had his pond water checked and his readings for zinc & copper are much higher than what is allowed for fish. I am quite worried about this asI am on the same supply as him. ( no wonder he has no blanketweed) He is currently experiencing problems with wounds not healing and fish being generally off colour.I have asked him to get is supply water checked before & after a new purifiier he has recently installed. Are there any quick fixes until this problem can be resolved like adding sodium thiosulphate. To make matters worse we live in a soft water area so he could raise G.H. levels which could help but don,t have any chemicals such as calcium chloride or epsom salts at hand. I might be thinking of RO again even though my TDS out of the tap is only 70ppm.
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Manky Sanke
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Re: How can we remove metals from our pond water
Dave,
As you say, your friend should sort out his purifier problem because it's far better to stop heavy metals getting into the pond rather than to remove them afterwards. Tell him to talk to Anne Telford at AllClear Water Purifiers. If he gives her his postcode, she can look that up in her database to see a water analysis for his particular area and be able to tell him what cartridges he needs. You could give her a call too.
http://www.allclearwaterpurifiers.com/cps/page1.asp
To remove heavy metals or other toxins from the water in the pond at the moment, he should use Paula Reynolds' product called Pond Detox Formula.
http://www.lincsfishhealth.co.uk/html/products.html
As you say, your friend should sort out his purifier problem because it's far better to stop heavy metals getting into the pond rather than to remove them afterwards. Tell him to talk to Anne Telford at AllClear Water Purifiers. If he gives her his postcode, she can look that up in her database to see a water analysis for his particular area and be able to tell him what cartridges he needs. You could give her a call too.
http://www.allclearwaterpurifiers.com/cps/page1.asp
To remove heavy metals or other toxins from the water in the pond at the moment, he should use Paula Reynolds' product called Pond Detox Formula.
http://www.lincsfishhealth.co.uk/html/products.html
Re: How can we remove metals from our pond water
Cheers Sid , I have decided to get my water checked too as I think I am on the same supply. Thanks for the links too. Best bRegards DaveManky Sanke wrote:Dave,
As you say, your friend should sort out his purifier problem because it's far better to stop heavy metals getting into the pond rather than to remove them afterwards. Tell him to talk to Anne Telford at AllClear Water Purifiers. If he gives her his postcode, she can look that up in her database to see a water analysis for his particular area and be able to tell him what cartridges he needs. You could give her a call too.
http://www.allclearwaterpurifiers.com/cps/page1.asp
To remove heavy metals or other toxins from the water in the pond at the moment, he should use Paula Reynolds' product called Pond Detox Formula.
http://www.lincsfishhealth.co.uk/html/products.html
Re: How can we remove metals from our pond water
After recieving my friends water report, I decided to get one done for myself. The guy came around and did a thorough job of carrying out a total of 15 tests. To my dismay the one which jumped out at me was copper both free and total. ( I don,t understand the differnce but think it is, one is in solution which is free and is the dangerous one. Otherwise the rest is bound up in minerals and is chelated copper and theerfore less dangerous in hard water.My readings are free copper 0.02mg/ltr and total o.28mg/ltr. After checkingthe water from my purifiers, the copper level is 0.24mg/ltr for free copper & 0.26mg for total copper so my purifiers are not doing anything to remove this. Just to confuse matters, the copper from the tap is total 0.22mg/ltr and free copper is 0.08mg/ltr.I am not sure what the accuracy of these Palin multy test meters are, but these are worrying numbers. I know that using Detox short term is an option and can use resin type filter cartridges to remove any metals, however the amount of water I use, this could be an expensive option and I am considering a combination of RO and resin type cartridges.After watching him carryout the tests when adding regents (powders) there looks to be the possibility of introducing inaccuracies to the correct amount.Best regards dave.
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Manky Sanke
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Re: How can we remove metals from our pond water
Dave,
Those figures for copper are very high. Are you using a water purifier with a combined KDF plus GAC cartridge (Kinetic Degradation Fluxion plus Granulated Activated Carbon) because they remove chlorine, chloramine and other impurities but can add copper and zinc oxides to the water. That's what your figures just about suggest.
The amount they add is well within acceptable levels for human consumption and may even provide some benefit because copper is an essential mineral for us, but the level of copper in the drinking water supply can be up to 2 mg/L which is much higher the safe level for koi which is only 0.015 mg/L in hard water.
I'm quite happy with the accuracy of Palin water parameter meters and if the man used reagents in a foil sachet, (he might have called them reagent pillows if he was trying to impress), these are accurate too because there is more reagent than necessary in each sachet. It may have looked as if he didn't get all the reagent into the cuvet but that isn't important as long as most of it went in.
Reverse osmosis will remove copper but you will presumably mix the RO water with some purified water so you will still need some sort of conventional purifier. I'll leave the RO users on here to advise you which system is best and what ratio works for them.
With a high water usage, I think you need to talk to Anne Telford about purifiers and copper removal because water purifiers are her area and she can tell you which will be the most cost effective in the long run.
Those figures for copper are very high. Are you using a water purifier with a combined KDF plus GAC cartridge (Kinetic Degradation Fluxion plus Granulated Activated Carbon) because they remove chlorine, chloramine and other impurities but can add copper and zinc oxides to the water. That's what your figures just about suggest.
The amount they add is well within acceptable levels for human consumption and may even provide some benefit because copper is an essential mineral for us, but the level of copper in the drinking water supply can be up to 2 mg/L which is much higher the safe level for koi which is only 0.015 mg/L in hard water.
I'm quite happy with the accuracy of Palin water parameter meters and if the man used reagents in a foil sachet, (he might have called them reagent pillows if he was trying to impress), these are accurate too because there is more reagent than necessary in each sachet. It may have looked as if he didn't get all the reagent into the cuvet but that isn't important as long as most of it went in.
Reverse osmosis will remove copper but you will presumably mix the RO water with some purified water so you will still need some sort of conventional purifier. I'll leave the RO users on here to advise you which system is best and what ratio works for them.
With a high water usage, I think you need to talk to Anne Telford about purifiers and copper removal because water purifiers are her area and she can tell you which will be the most cost effective in the long run.
Re: How can we remove metals from our pond water
Just for the record I am using a combination of 3 xfilter cartridges first one is 5 micron sediment followed by GAC and then carbon block. Just to confirm, are you suggesting the GAC filter is adding copper or is it the KDF filter that adds the copper and zinc oxides.Thanks once again for clearing up a few matters with the Palin test
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Manky Sanke
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Re: How can we remove metals from our pond water
Dave,
It's the KDF filter medium that adds copper and zinc oxides.
Basic activated carbon filters are manufactured to be granulated and porous which gives them a massive surface area and this surface adsorbs impurities. Adsorb is similar to absorb but instead of a substance going into the molecular structure of the carbon and becoming a part of it as we normally understand absorbtion, adsorb means that the impurities only stick to the surfaces. These surfaces include all the internal surfaces of the tiny holes due to it being porous but if you could magnify it enough to see the molecules, all you would see is them stuck to the surface like flies to a flypaper.
This creates a problem for GAC. Substances like chlorine contaminate the surfaces meaning that their life is shortened when used to dechlorinate water so the manufacturers came up with the KDF GAC combination.
The simplest way to think about how these work is to imagine a single cartridge partly filled (25% to 50%) with KDF and topped up with GAC so that the water first flows through the KDF and then through the GAC.
The KDF swaps ions (bits of molecules) with incoming impurities and this alters them into less harmful compounds. Chlorine typically becomes harmless chloride, which fish actually need anyway, or salt at a very low level. It's this process of swapping ions that puts copper and zinc from the KDF into the water before it goes through the GAC to remove other impurities.
As I said earlier, the levels of zinc and copper are well within the acceptable limits for human consumption but could be much higher than the safe levels for koi.
It's the KDF filter medium that adds copper and zinc oxides.
Basic activated carbon filters are manufactured to be granulated and porous which gives them a massive surface area and this surface adsorbs impurities. Adsorb is similar to absorb but instead of a substance going into the molecular structure of the carbon and becoming a part of it as we normally understand absorbtion, adsorb means that the impurities only stick to the surfaces. These surfaces include all the internal surfaces of the tiny holes due to it being porous but if you could magnify it enough to see the molecules, all you would see is them stuck to the surface like flies to a flypaper.
This creates a problem for GAC. Substances like chlorine contaminate the surfaces meaning that their life is shortened when used to dechlorinate water so the manufacturers came up with the KDF GAC combination.
The simplest way to think about how these work is to imagine a single cartridge partly filled (25% to 50%) with KDF and topped up with GAC so that the water first flows through the KDF and then through the GAC.
The KDF swaps ions (bits of molecules) with incoming impurities and this alters them into less harmful compounds. Chlorine typically becomes harmless chloride, which fish actually need anyway, or salt at a very low level. It's this process of swapping ions that puts copper and zinc from the KDF into the water before it goes through the GAC to remove other impurities.
As I said earlier, the levels of zinc and copper are well within the acceptable limits for human consumption but could be much higher than the safe levels for koi.
Re: How can we remove metals from our pond water
Sid, Once again thanks for clearing that up which has helped me decide which way I want to go with this. I have now decided to go back down the RO route. I have just fitted some new RO membranes to my old system and is now running at 100% without any additional top ups with purified water. I will run like this for a while and in the mean time add some detox to the pond in the hope of reducing what is already in the pond. The other reason I have taken the RO route is to remove other impurities like phosphate.I don,t intend to be too drastic with running RO, so will eventually run with purified water too, so as you say will still need some form of metals removal cartridges. I have come across a very reasonable cartridge which would fit a regular 10" housing so do I replace my exsisting 3 pond system with the metals cartridge in the last chamber replacing the carbon block or should I add a forth cartridge with metals removal resin cartridge in that. I understand that most of these metals removal cartriidges have a very short life span, say 2000 gallons. Sorry for all the questions. Best Regards Dave
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Manky Sanke
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Re: How can we remove metals from our pond water
No problem about questions Dave, this would be a pretty boring forum if nobody asked questions so ask all you want.
As for getting rid of your carbon block, if you wanted to stay with three pods, I'd keep the block and get rid of the GAC cartridge instead.
I keep seeing references to a teaspoonful of GAC having a total surface area in excess of 4,000 square metres. I've no way of double checking that figure but there are repeated claims giving similar surface areas for similar amounts so it seems likely that it's true. So if GAC has such a massive surface area, (and is so easy to make), why would manufacturers go to the trouble of making carbon blocks?
Water will find the easiest way through a filter and will tend to try to "track" around the individual granules in a granulated bed rather flow through every nook and cranny inside them. This isn't quite as bad as it may sound but it does make them less efficient because if water has to travel through a solid but porous block, there are no easy routes that bypasses some of it in the same way that water can avoid going deep into every granule.
The best solution would be to keep both the massive surface area of the GAC to remove the majority of the impurities and the efficiency of the carbon block to take out the rest which would give the best of both worlds and then to add a metals filter as a fourth pod, if it would be possible.
As for getting rid of your carbon block, if you wanted to stay with three pods, I'd keep the block and get rid of the GAC cartridge instead.
I keep seeing references to a teaspoonful of GAC having a total surface area in excess of 4,000 square metres. I've no way of double checking that figure but there are repeated claims giving similar surface areas for similar amounts so it seems likely that it's true. So if GAC has such a massive surface area, (and is so easy to make), why would manufacturers go to the trouble of making carbon blocks?
Water will find the easiest way through a filter and will tend to try to "track" around the individual granules in a granulated bed rather flow through every nook and cranny inside them. This isn't quite as bad as it may sound but it does make them less efficient because if water has to travel through a solid but porous block, there are no easy routes that bypasses some of it in the same way that water can avoid going deep into every granule.
The best solution would be to keep both the massive surface area of the GAC to remove the majority of the impurities and the efficiency of the carbon block to take out the rest which would give the best of both worlds and then to add a metals filter as a fourth pod, if it would be possible.
Re: How can we remove metals from our pond water
Cheers Sid, It would not be a problem adding a forth filter pod. So will probably go down that route. One other way would be to run 100% RO which with supply water temps fairly high at the moment I am able to make enough to do this if I want (40%per week) As not to deplete the stuff that the koi need in small amounts, what are your thoughts on adding such things as sodium bicarbonate, calcium chloride and magnesium sulphate( epsom salts) This way I do not need to add any of the nasties that ordinary filters cannot remove back into the pond. Best Regards Dave