Hi,
some time ago AL posted his pond rebuild based in the stream flow design and using the airlift principle instead of BD
http://www.koiquest.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1051
Stuart also built his new pond following the same basic principles, history posted in Koi UK forum
http://mauricecox.proboards54.com/index.cgi ... 1146781513
I'm currently planning a new pond built and am considering this way to go.
Is it still working fine for you Al? Would you change anything?
Have other members built their ponds using the airlift system instead of BD?
Any inputs are most welcome!
stream flow+airlift, what's up?
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estanque_koi
- Nurse Shark
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:25 am
- Location: Cordoba, Spain
Diego I have one planned for construction shortly for Paul Black. I have also built one fo another client in Nottingham. Here is the link http://www.jewelspondsandgardens.co.uk/proj ... .asp?ID=22
Any questions fire away. Al and Stu pop in here andare both happy with the way they have constructed their pools. God luck
Jules
Any questions fire away. Al and Stu pop in here andare both happy with the way they have constructed their pools. God luck
Jules
Hi Diego,
The pond is running like a dream, its been online for just over a year now. I have made a couple of mods to it which are detailed here...[url]http://www.koiquest.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4945[/url]
These mods where done for a couple of reasons, mainly to improve the pond turnover. The problem i was having was to do with putting/pushing too much flow along the bottom over too short a distance. Stuarts pond runs well too, his is a fair bit longer in length so he hasnt had the same problem with the flow as me. I think there is a maximum flow that you can push according to the length of the pond, this has been trail and error to get it right.
To date i am 100% happy now with how things are and would highly recomend this type of system, i have no plans to alter anything now as the teething troubles have been sorted, i was expecting to make a few tweeks as the concept is new and unknown.
Everyone who has seen it running has been impressed with how it works, the fish are doing great, putting length and body on nicely, i have recently added a small 30cm Kohaku tosai to see how well this does over the next year or so....
The pond is running like a dream, its been online for just over a year now. I have made a couple of mods to it which are detailed here...[url]http://www.koiquest.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4945[/url]
These mods where done for a couple of reasons, mainly to improve the pond turnover. The problem i was having was to do with putting/pushing too much flow along the bottom over too short a distance. Stuarts pond runs well too, his is a fair bit longer in length so he hasnt had the same problem with the flow as me. I think there is a maximum flow that you can push according to the length of the pond, this has been trail and error to get it right.
To date i am 100% happy now with how things are and would highly recomend this type of system, i have no plans to alter anything now as the teething troubles have been sorted, i was expecting to make a few tweeks as the concept is new and unknown.
Everyone who has seen it running has been impressed with how it works, the fish are doing great, putting length and body on nicely, i have recently added a small 30cm Kohaku tosai to see how well this does over the next year or so....
I read with interest Stuart's streamflow pond build on KoiUK - wonderful looking pond <<wistful sigh>> - and I got to wondering.
I intend to build my new pond with gravity fed filters, but wondered if it is reasonable to use the air up-lift instead of a pump to get the water back up and into the top pond?
Why can't I just have several 1.5 inch pipes from what would have been my pump sump and lift the water with air stones?
Stuart states that he can get in the region of 6000 gallons per hour from an airtech 40. Compare the cost of running one of those compared to an equivalent pump.
If I can use air-lift to take away the stuff from the bottom to waste - just like Stuart's and then use the same from the filters back to the top I could have a pump free pond, all air driven.
Are there any disadvantages with this approach?
What about noise?
Any thoughts gratefully received.
I intend to build my new pond with gravity fed filters, but wondered if it is reasonable to use the air up-lift instead of a pump to get the water back up and into the top pond?
Why can't I just have several 1.5 inch pipes from what would have been my pump sump and lift the water with air stones?
Stuart states that he can get in the region of 6000 gallons per hour from an airtech 40. Compare the cost of running one of those compared to an equivalent pump.
If I can use air-lift to take away the stuff from the bottom to waste - just like Stuart's and then use the same from the filters back to the top I could have a pump free pond, all air driven.
Are there any disadvantages with this approach?
What about noise?
Any thoughts gratefully received.
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estanque_koi
- Nurse Shark
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:25 am
- Location: Cordoba, Spain
Hi,
J.A. Frutos, the current president of the A.E.K., has been experimenting on this subject, both in his QT system as well as in his main pond despite this was not built originally according withe the SF+AL principles.
He has been using just air to recirculate the pond water and through the filters (static K1, static beads, dynamic K1).
He was showing his system during the last AEK meeting in mid june (couple of pictures of the pond below).
I can't remember exact data and figures right now.
J.A. Frutos, the current president of the A.E.K., has been experimenting on this subject, both in his QT system as well as in his main pond despite this was not built originally according withe the SF+AL principles.
He has been using just air to recirculate the pond water and through the filters (static K1, static beads, dynamic K1).
He was showing his system during the last AEK meeting in mid june (couple of pictures of the pond below).
I can't remember exact data and figures right now.
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- AEK07 05 r.jpg (82.35 KiB) Viewed 22657 times
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- AEK07 01 r.jpg (112.17 KiB) Viewed 22660 times
Thanks Diego!
So it is possible. Has anybody else got any views on this method of moving water from filters back to pond?
Im trying to think of the cons and the only thing at the moment is air pump reliability but with my secohs I cant see a problem with that really. Could just have one spare sat by in case of failure.
Diego did you see how Mr Frutos had done it, any diagrams?
So it is possible. Has anybody else got any views on this method of moving water from filters back to pond?
Im trying to think of the cons and the only thing at the moment is air pump reliability but with my secohs I cant see a problem with that really. Could just have one spare sat by in case of failure.
Diego did you see how Mr Frutos had done it, any diagrams?
Some info here which may help.....[url]http://home.netcom.com/~larry_l/air_lifts.htm[/url]
Guy, to move the water back into the pond from the filters would be simply enough, you would need to place X amount of uplift pipes in the filters (X being determined by the flow required) above the water level of the pond and feed them with air, give it a try.
Place a 2" pipe in the filters an inch or so off the bottom and an inch or so above the water water level, drop an airstone in and see what happens, its a similar idea to how the home made protein skimmer works. To return this to the pond after would require a little extra pipe work and a little tinkering with the air flow.....
Diego, glad to see the idea has sparked some interest over there....
Guy, to move the water back into the pond from the filters would be simply enough, you would need to place X amount of uplift pipes in the filters (X being determined by the flow required) above the water level of the pond and feed them with air, give it a try.
Place a 2" pipe in the filters an inch or so off the bottom and an inch or so above the water water level, drop an airstone in and see what happens, its a similar idea to how the home made protein skimmer works. To return this to the pond after would require a little extra pipe work and a little tinkering with the air flow.....
Diego, glad to see the idea has sparked some interest over there....
Thanks for the linky Al, great help!!
Without doubt going to try this. The thing that put me off the stream flow was the amount of water being changed and what with moving next month I will be on a meter once we move.
My main problem will be being gravity fed to Nexus and then air flow back to pond. Im thinking this will require a block built chamber after the nexus for the air flow pipes.
Without doubt going to try this. The thing that put me off the stream flow was the amount of water being changed and what with moving next month I will be on a meter once we move.
My main problem will be being gravity fed to Nexus and then air flow back to pond. Im thinking this will require a block built chamber after the nexus for the air flow pipes.
No problem Guy,
A small/medium sized vortex after the nexus should do fine, you may even get away with puting them in the 'D' exit of the nexus?
The water changed in my streamflow pond works out at around 10-15% per week, average i would think for any pond. I do change more in the summer...ha....months though as my source water has hardly any kh at this time of the year, and the feed rate is more, this keeps things stable.
A small/medium sized vortex after the nexus should do fine, you may even get away with puting them in the 'D' exit of the nexus?
The water changed in my streamflow pond works out at around 10-15% per week, average i would think for any pond. I do change more in the summer...ha....months though as my source water has hardly any kh at this time of the year, and the feed rate is more, this keeps things stable.
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estanque_koi
- Nurse Shark
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:25 am
- Location: Cordoba, Spain
sorry, I've been busy.
In short I can say he was able to move water from one side of the pond to the other and through the filter just with air. However the flow seems to be smaller than originally expected based on Al's figures, probably due to the length of pipe from mid waters to filter. Frutos believed that his system could be refined to achieve more efficiency.
I remember that JA Frutos pond is around 35000 liters, depth is 2 meters and there are two aerated BD. I think he had 2 Secoh SL 40 air pumps, + 1 Resun 100.
His system originally had one ultrasieve II with 300 micron sieve, then a sequence pump feeding a big DIY mechanical/biological filter (2 chambers, his own design). He uses both static beads (not pressurized) and static K1 in different internal chambers for mechanical filtration. An air pump on a timer is used to both swirl the beads and also to drain waste by means of an special twin pipe using the airlift effect.
He realized that the static beads and static kaldnes were trapping a lot of fines despite of the ultrasieve. So he started doing some experiments. He redirected the outflow of the sequence (coming from BD's and the ultrasieve II) to a big pipe with static K1 in the pond (his own design) which is cleaned on a timer as explained before.
We could see this system working and it was absolutely amazing the huge amout of waste trapped by the static K1 placed after the ultrasieve II.
Then he had redirected the water flow coming from midwaters in the oposite side of the pond to his filter, all the flow being moved by air.
Obviously it worked, although he had not measured the flow. Seems that the flow is reduced as the length of pipe increases and/or the heigh the water has to reach to go back to the pond.
I'll see if I can get more info.
In short I can say he was able to move water from one side of the pond to the other and through the filter just with air. However the flow seems to be smaller than originally expected based on Al's figures, probably due to the length of pipe from mid waters to filter. Frutos believed that his system could be refined to achieve more efficiency.
I remember that JA Frutos pond is around 35000 liters, depth is 2 meters and there are two aerated BD. I think he had 2 Secoh SL 40 air pumps, + 1 Resun 100.
His system originally had one ultrasieve II with 300 micron sieve, then a sequence pump feeding a big DIY mechanical/biological filter (2 chambers, his own design). He uses both static beads (not pressurized) and static K1 in different internal chambers for mechanical filtration. An air pump on a timer is used to both swirl the beads and also to drain waste by means of an special twin pipe using the airlift effect.
He realized that the static beads and static kaldnes were trapping a lot of fines despite of the ultrasieve. So he started doing some experiments. He redirected the outflow of the sequence (coming from BD's and the ultrasieve II) to a big pipe with static K1 in the pond (his own design) which is cleaned on a timer as explained before.
We could see this system working and it was absolutely amazing the huge amout of waste trapped by the static K1 placed after the ultrasieve II.
Then he had redirected the water flow coming from midwaters in the oposite side of the pond to his filter, all the flow being moved by air.
Obviously it worked, although he had not measured the flow. Seems that the flow is reduced as the length of pipe increases and/or the heigh the water has to reach to go back to the pond.
I'll see if I can get more info.
Hi Al
Thats not bad then really is it 10-15% you never now I may go down the stream flow route. Lots to do till then though. Dont think I can fit the desired amount of pipes in my Nexus200. Think a vortex after would do the trick or a bank of them and have the nexus running on its own on the skimmer line with a Aquamax5500 running that.
Still having kittens about the move date and getting all the fish moved.
Tipical that my fines are not good since I killed my BW with EA. Going to have to drain the pond to catch all my koi.
Diego thanks again for the info.
Thats not bad then really is it 10-15% you never now I may go down the stream flow route. Lots to do till then though. Dont think I can fit the desired amount of pipes in my Nexus200. Think a vortex after would do the trick or a bank of them and have the nexus running on its own on the skimmer line with a Aquamax5500 running that.
Still having kittens about the move date and getting all the fish moved.
Tipical that my fines are not good since I killed my BW with EA. Going to have to drain the pond to catch all my koi.
Diego thanks again for the info.