Back To Basics!

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:01 pm

Hi all,
Thanks for all the advice so far. I'm trying to digest it all but as a beginner I'm finding it a little difficult to grasp it all coherently!
I understand the need for water to spend the maximum amount of time in bio-media whilst also maintaining adequate turnover for the pond size. Mine is 8000 litres so I need to turnover 4000 litres an hour? So the larger the filter, the longer the water gets to spend there, right? And aeration in the filter is as important as aeration in the pond?
But what is static media as opposed to fluid, and should I use/need both? And is a vortex essential? And the correct sequence is vortex, static media, fluid media........Ummm?
I guess what I'm really asking is "is there some kind of basic pond set-up guide that I can get hold of that will explain each piece of equipment in the filtration chain, it's particular role, whether it's essential and how to connect them together properly!!"
It'll be a pump fed system anyway......I was too lazy and had insufficient foresight to put in a bottom drain. Kicking myself now!
Louie

gingeletiss · Post by **gingeletiss** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:46 pm

Hi Louie

Welcome to the minefield

. Three years into the hobby, and I know one thing for certain, that is DIY filters are better than those 'cheapies' that are bought. Of course, there are some very good systems on the market, but they can be very costly. I have seen some very good systems made by questers, and they work really well, hence the start of our DIY section.

As a start, I'd suggest that if you are making your own, then it would be static..fluid...fluid, but there are many differing opinions, and trial and error is the name of the game. I have a four bay, but plans to add three blue barrels to this system, I also have another four bay which I intend to convert.

As told me......'you can never have too much filtration or air'. Stanby to be inundated with ideas

vippymini · Post by **vippymini** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:12 pm

hi and welcome louie to the board.

your questions are asked by all of us time and time again, even the experienced koi keepers.

in answer to some of your questions here is hubbies and my guide to filtration.

dirty water enters the filter.
firstly you must remove as much suspended crud as possible. this is where a vortex or static media is used. (best used K1 or derivitive).
next you must take out the chemical impurities such as nitrite and amonia. this is best done by fluidised media (K1), where the media is kept rolling around in the water by use of air pumped into a diffuser ring at the bottom of the filter bay. you can use multiple bays of this to get max filtering.
lastly you can add a polishing bay with jap matting.

what you use and how you use it is up to you everyone has their own favorite containers.

hope this helps.

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:12 pm

Ok. So far so good. And I DO intend to go down the DIY route, although I'm looking at a Cloverleaf CL1 on Ebay right now as a temporary system...It HAS to be better than the Hozelock 9000 uvc I have now...it can't cope with the solids. (Just know that you'll tell me not to get it!!)
I know that the vortex is supposed to take out the "heavy" solids. Where do the solids go though, and how do you seperate them from the water which is going to carry on through to the next chamber? I think I can do the rest...It's the vortex bit which is confusing me! I'm assuming that you have to put in some kind of waste piping to carry the solids away?
My water actually looks quite clear at the moment, but there are a HELL of a lot of suspended particles in there which I only really noticed when I took a few pics underwater. Hence the need to step it up a gear or two!!
Thanks Again!
Louie

gingeletiss · Post by **gingeletiss** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:22 pm

Hi Louie

The first bay on my four bay is a vortex, I have brushes in there at the moment, and this collects an awful amount of crud, and this chamber has a bottom drain, so a couple of times a week, I just open the drain,. and dump the dirty water.

vippymini · Post by **vippymini** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:37 pm

in most filters DIYed the vortex is just a method of containing a basket or vessel that holds the static K1 media. its the K1 that catches the crud and holds on to it allowing cleaner water to pass on to the next part of the fi;ter.

this does need to be flushed to waste or it will clog up.
the method of seperating the crud from the K1 is an easy one, you fit a air diffuser ring under the static K1. once the first vortex or filterbay is isolated then the air is turned on and the tumbling action of the K1 in the air flow then seperates the crud back into suspention. the dirty water is then let go to waste through a valve and pipe in the bottom of the vortex/filterbay. you then turn the air off and let the waster flow through again.

have a look through the forum for the DIY EASYs that have been produced to give you a better idea

im sure some of the other questers will put some pictures up for you to study....

what i would say is to decide on an idea that you can change. coz beleive me you will change it many times before you are happy with it.

as for the CL1 ( 4 Bay Cloverleaf Koi / Goldfish Pond Filter )
your right dont do it spend the money on your future filter not one your only going to get rid of later..

vippymini · Post by **vippymini** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:40 pm

spend the money on something like these

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Recycled-plastic-drum ... dZViewItem

build for the future

edit heres one in kent you might be able to do a deal for half a dozen of them
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PLASTIC-DRUMS-BARRELS ... dZViewItem
they are in kent

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:19 pm

Brilliant! I have been considering getting hold of this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?View ... &rd=1&rd=1

But it's probably going to cost at least Ã‚Â£200 - Ã‚Â£300 to get it home.

If I get four of the barrels (less than Ã‚Â£20 and 10 mins from me!!

) then I use one for a vortex the way you've described (With the air ring to agitate the K1) and then run it into 2 separate barrels containing static K1, brushes or whatever and then a final one with jap matting?

Sounds cheap and affordable and will give me 36 gallons of filtration even if I only use half the available volume of the barrels.

I'm quite excited already at the prospect of building this!! Expect more questions!!

Louie

vippymini · Post by **vippymini** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:00 pm

buy the barrels and spend the rest on the pipe and fittings.
gerry5 SHOULD BE ABLE TO POST SOME DETAIL PHOTOS OF HIS SETUPS

like these
[img]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/sadle ... out027.jpg[/img]
"please gerry or jen"

Post by **B.Scott** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:10 pm

Sounds like a good plan. Just remember that the static K1 in the first chamber should be placed inside a separate container with holes in it and a drain at the bottom.

I'm just wondering if a four barrel filter isn't a bit small for an 8000 gallon pond. You would be hard pressed to put (minimum) 4000 gallons/hr through a barrel (or the filter on eBay) You might consider getting 6-8 barrels and making two systems side by side. This has advantages of being able to shut one down and clean it while the other keeps running. This would allow the use of 2 smaller (read cheaper) pumps as well. You would have a reserve should one of the filters pack it in. At the price of the barrels you wouldn't be out of pocket all that much extra and it would save having to do it all later. If nothing else you could finish one system and have the other more or less in place next to it ready to be completed when you need to expand in the future.

Whatja think?

B.Scott

vippymini · Post by **vippymini** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:14 pm

Er, Mr B-Scott. thats 8000 litres not gallons

and with 4x220 litres in 4 barrels thats 880litres just over 10% of the pond volume

carlejo · Post by **carlejo** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:19 pm

this would be more than adequate

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GIANT-FIBREGLASS-VORT ... dZViewItem

Post by **B.Scott** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:22 pm

vippymini wrote:Er, Mr B-Scott. thats 8000 litres not gallons
and with 4x220 litres in 4 barrels thats 880litres just over 10% of the pond volume

Oops, slight difference! Yeah in that case I agree, four barrels are more than adequate. You Brits really need to go completely metric, I get confused so easily

B.Scott

vippymini · Post by **vippymini** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:22 pm

as an addition to the volume bit, if you go for the screw top barrels that are close to you they are only 18gal or 81ltr in volume so you might look at a couple more than 4. say two banks of three running like scotty says in parallel. using two pumps. being smaller they should take up the space as 4 big ones. and the pumps can be a bit smaller. probably 5500ltr/hr aquamax or similar
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hozelock-Titan-5500-D ... dZViewItem
would do the trick, and using 2 inch pipework you would not loose much in the way of flow.

emmaandaj · Post by **emmaandaj** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:47 pm

Hi Louie,

Are you ever anywhere near colchester? I may be able to lay my hands on a few of the 200 litre barrels from work if you could collect them-cant promise anything but im sure there are a few more lying around that i can steal!

Cheers Andy

Simply Koi and More Koi

Back To Basics!

Back To Basics!

So Far....

DIY Filter