My current pond is 3,750 gals. Due to the horrible fluctuations in temperature I have experienced this year; Summer in April and Autumn for the rest of the time, I have decided to heat my pond this winter. The plan is to heat for temperature stability going into and out of winter.
Someone is offering me a 3K Elecro heater secondhand. I know the rule is 1K per 1,000 gals but given that I won't be maintaining high temperatures I was wondering whether I could get away with it. Also a 4K heater will require a separate electrical installation. I will also build some sort of insulating cover.
I should only need it for this season (famous last words) because I will shortly begin building a new and bigger pond. When this is built I plan to install oil heating that could cover both ponds. Therefore I am trying to minimise my spend on the current pond.
Any advise or suggestions welcomed.
Cheers
Jon W.
Can I get away with a 3K heater in 3,750 pond
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gingeletiss
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Thanks very much Gazza and Dave - I was hoping someone would say "yes". I live on the coast in West Wales so the climate is one of the mildest in the U.K., although we do occasionally get a nasty wind up the kilt!
I'm not being a cheapskate; it's rather that I have already spent a fair few quid on the existing pond (inherited from the previous owners and starting to show signs of ageing) and would rather spend what pittance I have on a new financial blackhole/pond. I've just started planning, the idea is something in the region of 8-10K gals.
The whole thing has become rather scary. I started off plonking a few sarasa comets into the pond because it was there. Within two years I've convinced myself that I can't be happy in life without the koi equivalent of the Ritz!
Cheers
Jon W.
I'm not being a cheapskate; it's rather that I have already spent a fair few quid on the existing pond (inherited from the previous owners and starting to show signs of ageing) and would rather spend what pittance I have on a new financial blackhole/pond. I've just started planning, the idea is something in the region of 8-10K gals.
The whole thing has become rather scary. I started off plonking a few sarasa comets into the pond because it was there. Within two years I've convinced myself that I can't be happy in life without the koi equivalent of the Ritz!
Cheers
Jon W.
Hi Gazza
I'm not really sure it's big or not. I sort of figured that if I want to grow anything on to a decent size then I thought a minimum of 6K gals. Then I kept reading comments by other people about wishing they had built their ponds bigger and thought that from a practical and financial standpoint 10K gals is probably as big as I can go.
I'm still at the very early stage of design because I've got a bit of a sloping site and need to work out exactly what is practical. Once I've worked out how to use a CAD package and more or less finalised the design I will post it up here so everybody else can pick holes/critique it. I'm pretty new to koi and have never laid a block in my life so I will need all the help I can get.
Cheers
Jon W.
I'm not really sure it's big or not. I sort of figured that if I want to grow anything on to a decent size then I thought a minimum of 6K gals. Then I kept reading comments by other people about wishing they had built their ponds bigger and thought that from a practical and financial standpoint 10K gals is probably as big as I can go.
I'm still at the very early stage of design because I've got a bit of a sloping site and need to work out exactly what is practical. Once I've worked out how to use a CAD package and more or less finalised the design I will post it up here so everybody else can pick holes/critique it. I'm pretty new to koi and have never laid a block in my life so I will need all the help I can get.
Cheers
Jon W.
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Gazza
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Hi Jon,
The first thing i say to anyone who wants to build a pond is make sure you can afford to run it correctly as its better to have a smaller over filtered and affordable pond than a bigger under filtered one
What i mean by this is if your going to heat its a big difference and then there are the bigger pumps and filtration that it needs and all the little things that add up.Also there will be a time you need some treatment this will be twice and much for 10000gld than 5000 including blanket weed treatment.Then you have more fish because its a bigger pond which means more food and more money for more fish
If you have a well build smaller pond with good filtration you can still keep quality koi and they will grow and once you start getting into the hobby and are settled you can bet your life you will then want better quality fish.....more ££££££££££££££
The first thing i say to anyone who wants to build a pond is make sure you can afford to run it correctly as its better to have a smaller over filtered and affordable pond than a bigger under filtered one
What i mean by this is if your going to heat its a big difference and then there are the bigger pumps and filtration that it needs and all the little things that add up.Also there will be a time you need some treatment this will be twice and much for 10000gld than 5000 including blanket weed treatment.Then you have more fish because its a bigger pond which means more food and more money for more fish
If you have a well build smaller pond with good filtration you can still keep quality koi and they will grow and once you start getting into the hobby and are settled you can bet your life you will then want better quality fish.....more ££££££££££££££
Hi Gazza
My current pond I inherited with the house. It is 4K gal and was built as a "proper" koi pond about 10 years ago. Now I know a bit more about I realise that it suffers from a number of irritating design faults and needs re-proofing - I think they used G4 and it's beginning to flake off. On balance I think it has to go and I have been tempted by the "you'll never regret building a bigger pond" maxim - the one thing I have where I live is space which is seductive when planning your ideal pond. The price payed for having all that space is considerably less disposable dosh. So your probably right in terms of providing an providing an optimal environment for a fewer number of fish rather than a large underfiltered and less manageable pond.
Like virtually every subject related to koi I have encountered vastly differing opinions on what is an optimal size. My straw poll so far suggests about 6K gal as a good tradeoff between ongoing running costs and a decent amount of koi living space. The fluctuations in temperature this year have convinced me that heating is essential and I know that the costs for this will be significant.
Perhaps the best way to design the pond is to work how much one is prepared to shell out on running costs and design the pond from there. If I come up with a decent model I'll let everyone know.
Cheers
Jon W.
My current pond I inherited with the house. It is 4K gal and was built as a "proper" koi pond about 10 years ago. Now I know a bit more about I realise that it suffers from a number of irritating design faults and needs re-proofing - I think they used G4 and it's beginning to flake off. On balance I think it has to go and I have been tempted by the "you'll never regret building a bigger pond" maxim - the one thing I have where I live is space which is seductive when planning your ideal pond. The price payed for having all that space is considerably less disposable dosh. So your probably right in terms of providing an providing an optimal environment for a fewer number of fish rather than a large underfiltered and less manageable pond.
Like virtually every subject related to koi I have encountered vastly differing opinions on what is an optimal size. My straw poll so far suggests about 6K gal as a good tradeoff between ongoing running costs and a decent amount of koi living space. The fluctuations in temperature this year have convinced me that heating is essential and I know that the costs for this will be significant.
Perhaps the best way to design the pond is to work how much one is prepared to shell out on running costs and design the pond from there. If I come up with a decent model I'll let everyone know.
Cheers
Jon W.
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Gazza
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Hi Jon,
I personally would never see myself with a big pond (unless i win the lotto) as the running costs can get out of hand and with good filtration its surprising how many fish you can have in a smaller pond.
Heating is indeed a major factor and one you defiantly need to think about as it can be very expensive.Gas is the way to go but more to install but cheaper in the long run.You then have to think on if your going to insulate the pond and cover it this again makes a big difference.You then have how warm are you going to keep it as i think at first we all say its just to stop temperate fluctuations but then we just have it just a bit warmer
Then the day to day running bigger pond bigger pumps more electricity and then air pump more electricity and if your on a water meter more water
I have a 4500gln pond and i run two pumps one sequence 750,1 Aquamax Eco 16,000,1 boiler 50,000btu,four air pumps, so as you can see it soon mounts up
This is without the new shoes and cloths for the wife
Hope i am not putting you off as that is defiantly not my intention
I personally would never see myself with a big pond (unless i win the lotto) as the running costs can get out of hand and with good filtration its surprising how many fish you can have in a smaller pond.
Heating is indeed a major factor and one you defiantly need to think about as it can be very expensive.Gas is the way to go but more to install but cheaper in the long run.You then have to think on if your going to insulate the pond and cover it this again makes a big difference.You then have how warm are you going to keep it as i think at first we all say its just to stop temperate fluctuations but then we just have it just a bit warmer
Then the day to day running bigger pond bigger pumps more electricity and then air pump more electricity and if your on a water meter more water
I have a 4500gln pond and i run two pumps one sequence 750,1 Aquamax Eco 16,000,1 boiler 50,000btu,four air pumps, so as you can see it soon mounts up
This is without the new shoes and cloths for the wife
Hope i am not putting you off as that is defiantly not my intention
Hi Gazza
You're definitely right about the running costs factor. It's easy to get seduced by some of the 20K+ gal indoor ponds with filtration courtesy of NASA that you see browsing around the U.S. sites. Also one commondity I have plenty of is space.
I think I mentioned on another thread that I am re-thinking the 10K gal dream pond re-build after your comments regarding size.
I am considering using desired running costs as the start point for the new pond design and building it backwards. I'm hoping it will work out as something around 6K gals. If it doesn't then I may just give current pond a massive overhaul and perhaps a small extension.
I will definitely have substantial heating bills whatever because mains gas is not an option so it's either LPG, oil or electricity (probably oil).
For some reason I find it aesthetically hard to come to terms with having big fish in a smallish pond. I'm probably (and erroneously) applying the "free range" approach to koi i.e. they can only be truly happy with a lot of swimming even with superb water. My current pond is 4K gals and I've tended to buy growers 6-10" with a view to housing them in a larger pond later on. I reckon my view on this will change once I have seen other peoples ponds (recently joined the West Wales KKS).
Cheers
Jon W.
You're definitely right about the running costs factor. It's easy to get seduced by some of the 20K+ gal indoor ponds with filtration courtesy of NASA that you see browsing around the U.S. sites. Also one commondity I have plenty of is space.
I think I mentioned on another thread that I am re-thinking the 10K gal dream pond re-build after your comments regarding size.
I am considering using desired running costs as the start point for the new pond design and building it backwards. I'm hoping it will work out as something around 6K gals. If it doesn't then I may just give current pond a massive overhaul and perhaps a small extension.
I will definitely have substantial heating bills whatever because mains gas is not an option so it's either LPG, oil or electricity (probably oil).
For some reason I find it aesthetically hard to come to terms with having big fish in a smallish pond. I'm probably (and erroneously) applying the "free range" approach to koi i.e. they can only be truly happy with a lot of swimming even with superb water. My current pond is 4K gals and I've tended to buy growers 6-10" with a view to housing them in a larger pond later on. I reckon my view on this will change once I have seen other peoples ponds (recently joined the West Wales KKS).
Cheers
Jon W.
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Gazza
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Hi Jon,
Yes that is a good idea get out and see other ponds to get some ideas and always post if your not sure as there is normally someone around who has done or built similar
I started with a 2500gln pond and thought the same as you that for big fish they need the room but that pond was under filtered and would not of coped with a bigger load
I have 12 or 13 fish in my pond ranging from around 45-40cm up to 75cm+ and they seem fine and i also Koi Sat 4 other fish and none of them where small
Yes that is a good idea get out and see other ponds to get some ideas and always post if your not sure as there is normally someone around who has done or built similar
I started with a 2500gln pond and thought the same as you that for big fish they need the room but that pond was under filtered and would not of coped with a bigger load
I have 12 or 13 fish in my pond ranging from around 45-40cm up to 75cm+ and they seem fine and i also Koi Sat 4 other fish and none of them where small
Hi Gazza
I can see that the koi can be healthy in a relatively small space. I've seen one dealer's set up where serious size fish were living in what was effectively an 8 ft deep trench and they looked very happy and healthy. The healthiest looking wild carp of decent size I've seen and caught lived in something that was little more than a mudpool. It's more the "Clacton Pier dolphin" aesthetic that I want to avoid. Maybe I've been keeping free range poultry for too long!
Cheers
Jon W.
I can see that the koi can be healthy in a relatively small space. I've seen one dealer's set up where serious size fish were living in what was effectively an 8 ft deep trench and they looked very happy and healthy. The healthiest looking wild carp of decent size I've seen and caught lived in something that was little more than a mudpool. It's more the "Clacton Pier dolphin" aesthetic that I want to avoid. Maybe I've been keeping free range poultry for too long!
Cheers
Jon W.
Some countries have very big postage stamps. Until recently I lived in Sarf London where the garden was so small I could've just about built the filter area for my current pond. I did try to design something that would fit but it would have been ridiculous, plus thanks to being on the side of a hill with a very big tree in the next door and good old London clay I would probably undermined the foundations of every house in the road. When I realised the current house had a pond I couldn't my luck. Also it seemed enormous. Since then I think I have gradually developed pond envy through looking at threads with other peoples builds.
Cheers
Jon W.
Cheers
Jon W.